Re: Mac's Starter (kinda long)

["ScoutXX" <ScoutXX@xxxxxxxxx>]

Well, not exactly. :-)

My question is what specifically is *failing* with cheap *autozone or
discount part store* starters.

I didn't read your post that close, but most of it sounds like old starters
or electrical or heat problems; not problems with the starters being cheap
rebuilds.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mac @ TRIAD" <mac@domain.elided>
To: "ScoutXX" <ScoutXX@domain.elided>; <ihc@domain.elided>
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 6:05 PM
Subject: RE: Mac's Starter (kinda long)


> ## >> For those of you that keep burning up cheap starters exactly what is
> ## >> failing? I've used these autozone rebuild starters many times
> ## >> on different
> ## >> vehicles with and without headers and never had one fail. I
> ## >> used one on a
> ## >> 12.25-1 big block also without a problem. I always install a
> ## >> ford relay when
> ## >> I use headers so maybe that's why I don't have problems.
> ## >> I did have one that chewed up the flexplate I guess due to an
> ## >> clearance
> ## >> problem. There are shims you can buy but I never use them.
>
> right off, let me apologize for how long this got.  i didn't mean to
ramble
> on quite so much.  i can't speak for anyone else, but i can share what i
> know about my own starters.  one thing i know, if you overheat a starter
or
> spin one for too long, especially under load, it *will* fail, and Allan
> Ericson can tell you why much better than i can.  here are my experiences:
>
> 1971 Chevrolet longbed C/10 with 307 and 3-speed:  this one leaked oil all
> over its starters and had some electrical problems periodically.  my guess
> is a combination of the two things (with perhaps misuse by the operators)
> pushed the starters over the cliff, so to speak.
>
> 1972 TravelAll 1010 wtih 392 and 727 auto:  i only dealt with the starter
> once on this in the almost ten years i've had it now, and that was about
six
> months after i got it.  it only had worn brushes, so i replaced those and
> put it back in.  still works today.
>
> 1970 Scout 800A with 392 and T18 4-speed:  this one needed a replacement
> starter about three months into our ownership of it, but it had a serious
> overcharging problem (serious enough to explode an RV deep-cycle 1100CCA
> battery) at the time and i'm pretty certain the starter failure was due to
> related electrical problems.
>
> 1967/1968 Scout 800 with 152 and T90 3-speed:  we replaced the starter in
> this maybe two weeks after we got it...  the fuel pump filter got clogged
> and it wouldn't start, but it had died in fairly heavy traffic, so my
Bride
> put it in first gear and used the starter to pull it off the road and into
a
> vacant lot area.  she basically spun the starter till it died, and that
was
> the end of the hunt on that one.  i've opened this one up and can't see
what
> the problem with it is.  the brushes are in excellent shape, the bearings
> and other parts are nearly new, has a brand spanking new solenoid on it...
> but it won't spin and it won't kick out the starter gear.  dunno what's
> going on in there.
>
> 1972 TravelAll 1110 with 392 and 727 auto:  this one eats starters, but
i'm
> pretty sure it's the extreme heat.  this truck generates a LOT of heat
that
> goes straight into the starter, most likely from the exhaust which is
routed
> too close to the starter for my liking (way closer than either the 1010 or
> the 800A).  the starters under this one get extremely hot if you drive it
> longer than about 15 minutes or so, and even after a couple minutes
they're
> too hot to touch.  my first experience losing a starter, it just wouldn't
> start one morning at our house after my Bride brought it home from driving
> it around town for nearly seven hours, so if i remember right i stole the
> starter from the 800A long enough to get to town to pick up a new one for
> this truck.  for the second starter, i was buying hardware parts for my
> towbar a week before our trip out here to texas, and it died in the
hardware
> store parking lot (i'd been driving around for over three hours that day,
> and the day was blisteringly hot anyway).  my dad came and got us and took
> me to go buy a new starter, nobody in town could get one in less than 5
> days, so i bought a starter for a 1971 Chevy (they're basically the same
> unit with different offsets for the solenoid), and just changed nosecones
on
> the new one, and that worked.  that starter lasted exactly 5 days (turns
out
> i bought the wrong model, there are two for the Chevy, they look alike,
but
> the one i bought had the smaller and lighter internals), but got me home
> okay.  so that one died, i replaced it with one i cobbled together from
> parts i had laying around, and that one lasted 2 days. that one died just
> two days before we were to leave for here, at a Jiffy-Lube oil changing
> place (i didn't want to change my oil myself, and i had them use my own
case
> of Mobil-1 synthetic).  those guys were really nice about it, though, and
> let me store the truck overnight in one of their bays while i tried
> desperately to get a new starter.  in this case, what happened was they
> tried to start the truck to pull it out after the oil change, the starter
> solenoid engaged and would not disengage (but the starter never did spin
> up), so the starter got super duper hot and started smoking, the battery
> cables started melting their insulation, and the battery clamps melted
(this
> was, i believe, the beginning to my current electrical problems in this
> truck).  i was in the waiting area when this happened, and they came and
got
> me as this was going on...  what a mess.  i had to jerk the battery clamps
> off with big channel locks, then i crawled under it and hit the starter
with
> a hammer to get the solenoid to disengage.  the starter was fried, though.
> the supervisor there was really nice about it, he replaced my battery
> hardware free of charge and let me use their tools and go under the bay to
> pull the starter off (burned nearly every finger doing it, too, even
through
> gloves and towels).  once i had it off, the supervisor even gave me a ride
> home (an hour and a half round trip out of his way, what an incredibly
nice
> guy!).  my dad and i took the starters to a rebuilder the next day, they
had
> one done by 15:30 that day and the other done the next day, and i was able
> to replace the one we picked up same-day back in the truck that night and
> drive it home.  THAT starter is the one that died yesterday morning, but
it
> had been making a funny noise for the last two weeks (and getting really
hot
> too), and i am not surprised that it died, only surprised at what killed
it;
> when i opened it up, i found that one of the copper stator winding
contacts
> at the brush-end of the stator had come loose and fallen out, leaving a
gap,
> which caused the brushes to get all chewed up and even broke off one of
the
> brush holder lever things.  i tried replacing the stator and brushes with
> those from the starter that burned up in the 800, but it didn't work.
>
> lastly, my 1960 B122's original BD220 straight six and T98:  i still have
> the original starter from this engine (took it off the engine about ten
> months ago, discovered it no longer works), and when i last tried to use
it
> in 1992, when the starter was 32 years old, it still worked fine.  i
> replaced the BD220 with an SV304 in 1990, and never did replace the
starter
> on that 304 in the 3 years i drove it in its original 1965 D1200 or the 2
> years it spent in the B122.  it was parts from this starter, i think, that
i
> used to cobble together one of the starters that went into the 1110.
>
> does any of this help enlighten you as to what eats starters in my trucks?
> none of my trucks when they came to me has had the factory starter heat
> shields mentioned elsewhere, and i'm certain that has much to do with
> premature starter failure.  i'm going to remedy that as soon as i can,
too.
>
> --Mac