RE: Mac's Starter (kinda long)

["Mac @ TRIAD" <mac@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

## >> For those of you that keep burning up cheap starters exactly what is
## >> failing? I've used these autozone rebuild starters many times
## >> on different
## >> vehicles with and without headers and never had one fail. I
## >> used one on a
## >> 12.25-1 big block also without a problem. I always install a
## >> ford relay when
## >> I use headers so maybe that's why I don't have problems.
## >> I did have one that chewed up the flexplate I guess due to an
## >> clearance
## >> problem. There are shims you can buy but I never use them.

right off, let me apologize for how long this got.  i didn't mean to ramble
on quite so much.  i can't speak for anyone else, but i can share what i
know about my own starters.  one thing i know, if you overheat a starter or
spin one for too long, especially under load, it *will* fail, and Allan
Ericson can tell you why much better than i can.  here are my experiences:

1971 Chevrolet longbed C/10 with 307 and 3-speed:  this one leaked oil all
over its starters and had some electrical problems periodically.  my guess
is a combination of the two things (with perhaps misuse by the operators)
pushed the starters over the cliff, so to speak.

1972 TravelAll 1010 wtih 392 and 727 auto:  i only dealt with the starter
once on this in the almost ten years i've had it now, and that was about six
months after i got it.  it only had worn brushes, so i replaced those and
put it back in.  still works today.

1970 Scout 800A with 392 and T18 4-speed:  this one needed a replacement
starter about three months into our ownership of it, but it had a serious
overcharging problem (serious enough to explode an RV deep-cycle 1100CCA
battery) at the time and i'm pretty certain the starter failure was due to
related electrical problems.

1967/1968 Scout 800 with 152 and T90 3-speed:  we replaced the starter in
this maybe two weeks after we got it...  the fuel pump filter got clogged
and it wouldn't start, but it had died in fairly heavy traffic, so my Bride
put it in first gear and used the starter to pull it off the road and into a
vacant lot area.  she basically spun the starter till it died, and that was
the end of the hunt on that one.  i've opened this one up and can't see what
the problem with it is.  the brushes are in excellent shape, the bearings
and other parts are nearly new, has a brand spanking new solenoid on it...
but it won't spin and it won't kick out the starter gear.  dunno what's
going on in there.

1972 TravelAll 1110 with 392 and 727 auto:  this one eats starters, but i'm
pretty sure it's the extreme heat.  this truck generates a LOT of heat that
goes straight into the starter, most likely from the exhaust which is routed
too close to the starter for my liking (way closer than either the 1010 or
the 800A).  the starters under this one get extremely hot if you drive it
longer than about 15 minutes or so, and even after a couple minutes they're
too hot to touch.  my first experience losing a starter, it just wouldn't
start one morning at our house after my Bride brought it home from driving
it around town for nearly seven hours, so if i remember right i stole the
starter from the 800A long enough to get to town to pick up a new one for
this truck.  for the second starter, i was buying hardware parts for my
towbar a week before our trip out here to texas, and it died in the hardware
store parking lot (i'd been driving around for over three hours that day,
and the day was blisteringly hot anyway).  my dad came and got us and took
me to go buy a new starter, nobody in town could get one in less than 5
days, so i bought a starter for a 1971 Chevy (they're basically the same
unit with different offsets for the solenoid), and just changed nosecones on
the new one, and that worked.  that starter lasted exactly 5 days (turns out
i bought the wrong model, there are two for the Chevy, they look alike, but
the one i bought had the smaller and lighter internals), but got me home
okay.  so that one died, i replaced it with one i cobbled together from
parts i had laying around, and that one lasted 2 days. that one died just
two days before we were to leave for here, at a Jiffy-Lube oil changing
place (i didn't want to change my oil myself, and i had them use my own case
of Mobil-1 synthetic).  those guys were really nice about it, though, and
let me store the truck overnight in one of their bays while i tried
desperately to get a new starter.  in this case, what happened was they
tried to start the truck to pull it out after the oil change, the starter
solenoid engaged and would not disengage (but the starter never did spin
up), so the starter got super duper hot and started smoking, the battery
cables started melting their insulation, and the battery clamps melted (this
was, i believe, the beginning to my current electrical problems in this
truck).  i was in the waiting area when this happened, and they came and got
me as this was going on...  what a mess.  i had to jerk the battery clamps
off with big channel locks, then i crawled under it and hit the starter with
a hammer to get the solenoid to disengage.  the starter was fried, though.
the supervisor there was really nice about it, he replaced my battery
hardware free of charge and let me use their tools and go under the bay to
pull the starter off (burned nearly every finger doing it, too, even through
gloves and towels).  once i had it off, the supervisor even gave me a ride
home (an hour and a half round trip out of his way, what an incredibly nice
guy!).  my dad and i took the starters to a rebuilder the next day, they had
one done by 15:30 that day and the other done the next day, and i was able
to replace the one we picked up same-day back in the truck that night and
drive it home.  THAT starter is the one that died yesterday morning, but it
had been making a funny noise for the last two weeks (and getting really hot
too), and i am not surprised that it died, only surprised at what killed it;
when i opened it up, i found that one of the copper stator winding contacts
at the brush-end of the stator had come loose and fallen out, leaving a gap,
which caused the brushes to get all chewed up and even broke off one of the
brush holder lever things.  i tried replacing the stator and brushes with
those from the starter that burned up in the 800, but it didn't work.

lastly, my 1960 B122's original BD220 straight six and T98:  i still have
the original starter from this engine (took it off the engine about ten
months ago, discovered it no longer works), and when i last tried to use it
in 1992, when the starter was 32 years old, it still worked fine.  i
replaced the BD220 with an SV304 in 1990, and never did replace the starter
on that 304 in the 3 years i drove it in its original 1965 D1200 or the 2
years it spent in the B122.  it was parts from this starter, i think, that i
used to cobble together one of the starters that went into the 1110.

does any of this help enlighten you as to what eats starters in my trucks?
none of my trucks when they came to me has had the factory starter heat
shields mentioned elsewhere, and i'm certain that has much to do with
premature starter failure.  i'm going to remedy that as soon as i can, too.

--Mac

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Krystof "Mac" MacBryghde
TyrGothi

http://master.triad.ath.cx/