Re: Paintless dent removal (must read!!)

["Chao, Harvey" <harvey.chao@xxxxxxxx>]

>My body guy tells me that to do this type of repair the inner framework of
>the door panels really get hosed, and the only "real" way to fix these
dings
>is to take the car to a "real" body shop that will repair the dings the
>"correct" way. What's the facts?

Being a cynic and always asking "what's the motive?" - consider the
following:

from a traditional body shops perspective, the "correct" way is that
1)  you got to them, not some other guy to fix this for a fraction of their
(body shop) 
 cost 
2)  they fill the dent with bondo when you are not there, and then repaint
the whole panel 

I think it is extremely rare to find a body shop that will have the skills
to "pound out" damaged body panels anymore ( and that damages the paint so
even if you find someone to do it, you repaint the panel)  and even if you
did, labor is too high for that kind of work unless there is NO other choice
and you are willing to pay.  The usual is either replace the panel and
repaint or bondo and repaint (with maybe some rough metal working to get the
bondo to "acceptable" thickness (probably 1/4-1/8").  A GOOD panel metal man
can work a crinkled panel back to original contour with hammer, dolly, and a
torch to shrink the stretched metal back to shape/contour, but it takes time
and skill - both expensive commodities in today's world.  

For example, door panels are not infrequently :
1)   bondo and painted, or 
2)  the entire door replaced with used from a salvage yard and replaced and
painted, or
3)   the outer panel (which is crimped onto the frame around the perimeter)
is removed by grinding through the crimp edge all the way around the
perimeter and a new "skin" crimped on and then painted. 

Fenders and hoods and trunk lids are usually delt with by 1) or 2) above. 

Rear quarter panels, roof pillars, and roofs get interesting because if
bondo won't work, then "real" body work has to be done, either to work out
the damage or to cut and replace the panel by cutting, welding, and grinding
the welds .  This takes some skill and care to get a "seamless" repair that
is good enough not to show when painted.  

About 10-15 years ago we had my wife's '68 Pontiac parked in front of the
house "hit and run" that crumpled the left rear quarter panel.  The car was
old enough that the basic options were trash the car, live with it as is,
fix it myself.  Found a textbook in the public library on body work that
went into detail on body work, dents, creases, stretching, shrinking, hammer
and dolly work, why you don't "pinch" metal between the hammer and dolly (it
stretches the metal at the point of contact) etc. and went to work.  The
panel was severely folded and tightly creased at the folds.   Starting with
brute force from the inside (fortunately access to the panel was very good
from inside the trunk, I was able to unfold the metal in reverse, and then
work out the creases ( it's counter intuitive - don't hammer on the back
side of the crease, but lightly hammer on the front side ADJACENT to the
crease) and bring up the "punched in" areas.  In the end, I had to use a
very thin amount of bondo to level out small localized low spots about the
size of quarters that I was not skilled enough to bring up to contour with
just hammer and dolly.  It definitely is an art, and time, patience, and
practice are required - but if you have access to both front and rear
surfaces, it  is "doable"  - I consider the effort a good "learning"
experience and incentive to keep things "shiny side up" . . . 

Harvey

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