Roll Bar a Risk on the Street?

[E36MPwrd@xxxxxxx]

Don,

Didn't mean to start a major disagreement, but since I find this interesting,
I'll comment.  First let me point out that I only said that I thought the
risks are similar--I don't believe either option (driving on the streets with
a roll bar versus driving on the track with harness and no roll bar)
significantly increase the risks of driving in either environment.  Frankly,
if I weren't selling my car, I'd probably put a roll bar in because I do more
track driving than street driving.  But unless you can afford to have a
dedicated track vehicle, which would clearly be ideal, you have to make
compromises.  

> I think this argument is a little weak due to the fact that on the
>  street your chances of a high speed collision are reduced because you
>  will not (or should not) be driving the car the same way on the street
>  VS the Race track.

Overall, I firmly believe my chances of a serious accident are greater on the
street than on the track.  Combine lots of bad driving, overcrowding of roads,
and two way traffic, and you have the ingredients for trouble regardless of
how good of a driver you personally are.  I'd love to see the statistics of
serious accidents per mile traveled on a racetrack (driving schools only)
versus the highway, but while the latter are readily available, the former
would likely be impossible to determine.  Without actual data, both of our
arguments are equally weak, in my opinion.  But I FEEL that the track as a
situation where I am more in control than on the street.

>  At NHIS most people hit 100MPH, at LimeRock 105-110, At Watkins Glen
>  120MPH+ (and I'm slow). Combine this with braking, turns, slides,
>  drifts, driver error, other driver error, equipment failure, and debries
>  on the track like oil, antifreeze, brake fluid, power steering fluid.
>  Your chances of an incident on the track are a whole lot higher than on
>  the street. So in my mind the trade off of running with roll equipment
>  on the street is still a good deal. 

High speed is relative.  A crash at 70 or 80 on a highway can be pretty
devastating.  And a head-on crash with both cars traveling at 50 is even
worse.  More importantly, I trust my fellow CCA members a lot more than I do
the average US driver.  On the track, I can maintain enough personal space to
effectively control my own destiny.  I feel better about my odds that way. 

>  You chances of getting injured on the track without it, are much higher
>  then getting hurt on the street with it.  
>  PS Padding helps.

I really don't know.  No amount of padding will protect you if your head makes
a major impact with the bar without a helmet on.  Could this happen?  How
likely would it be?  I really don't know, but it seems to me that it is
possible.  Those of you with rollbars care to comment?  Would the seat have to
fail before your head would hit it?  

By the way, I assume you're not using your back seat.  There is no question in
my mind that someone in the back-seat would have their head turned to mush in
a major street accident with a rollbar in the car.  It would be irresponsible
to allow someone to ride back there IMO.

All this being said, I'd probably install a roll bar in my M3 were I not
planning to sell it.  But I'd never allow a rear seat passenger, and I would
pad it well.

Appreciating a good dialogue on tradeoffs between track and street safety,

Tim Leithead
'95 M3, 6 point harness, no roll bar, hoping I don't roll it!

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