[alfa] Re: Mosko accepts the challenge

[MMosko@xxxxxxx]

Dear Peter Webb and ALFAXTC and all others who believe they see things
differently than I do:

First I want to thank Richard Welty for providing us with this unique forum.
Unselfish people like Richard are the real leaders in our Alfa Community.
Let's not let this forum dissappear for lack of support. Contributions to the
Alfa
Digest are needed. Let's all give our share.

I've decided I don't write well enough. Only about 50% of what I believe
finds its way onto the written page. My first mistake in the President's
message
of the March Alfa Owner magazine was to leave "vintage" undefined. To me,
"vintage" is any car designed by Alfa Romeo before Fiat took over the company
in
the mid 1980's. I actually consider any Alfa that was sold new in the U.S.A.
to
be "vintage". Agreed, "vintage" by most standards means 25 yrs or older. On
the other hand my classic car insurance company is willing to insure my '91
spider. Also, I know that the average age of Alfas in the U.S. is around 20
years
and so I have this "vintage" mentality. What I should have written was a
definition of "vintage" or perhaps called our cars "vintage" and
"pre-vintage".

On to the challenge....

Peter Webb says, "I think the bottom line here is, we have 2 clubs within a
club.   Lets
categorize it as drivers and polishers.   Marc Mosko isn't going to help
this situation by taking one side or the other."

I don't agree. There arn't 2 clubs within AROC; there's a whole bunch of
them. There are the drivers, the restorer/polishers, the cafe racers who just
want
to look cool, the techies and there is even a bunch who don't enjoy driving
very much but do like food and socializing. Our club is for all of these
people
because we all have a common bond. We drive old cars that we love and which
make us stand out with pride from everyone else in the neighborhood. You see,
I
equate "old" with "vintage".. Wrong choice of words? Maybe. Then again I'm
not a wordsmith by a long shot.

You might ask, "what part of the club do you belong to, Mosko?" I can't
possibly side with anybody as I'm totally involved. Yes, I'm over 60 and my
reflexes are starting to go but I hold memberships to the Porsche Club and the
Ferrari Owners Club so that I can participate in Porsche club autocrosses
(with my
'74 GTV with an '89 Alfa Twin-Spark engine conversion) and time trials at
Moroso with the F.O.C. where the 308's and Dinos have a tough time beating me
(again with my GTV T.S.). I'm on a track at least 8 times a year. I'm a
polisher
too, because I did do a ground-up restoration on a '65 Giulia Spider Veloce
which won 1st in class at the 2003 AROC National Concours and has won at
numerous
serious concours throughout Florida.  Not withstanding, I recently swapped the
Concours Pirellis for Vredsteins on the '65 spider and have autocrossed the
car with the local SCCA club. The Miatas beat me up but I justify all by
telling them I've got 200 CC less displacement (1600) so they grin in
admiration. My
other vice is food and I'm admittedly 20 lbs overweight. I organize and
attend an Alfa dinner meeting each month in south florida and love it when a
couple
dozen or more Alfisti show up. I'm a cafe racer too as my '91 spider is
perfect, immaculate and soooooo beautiful!

 So I like it all and don't have any favorites. I'll drive with you, polish
with the best of you, try to understand the secrets of Bosch motronix systems
and show you the top 10 best Italian restaurants in So. Florida. I don't want
to divide this club. I want uninity, purpose and see no point in long
conversations about "when Alfa returns to the USA". The reality is that Alfa
belongs to
FIAT. FIAT is in big financial trouble. GM owns 20% of FIAT with a "put
option", which is an obligation to buy the other 80%. GM doesn't want to
exercise
the put option as there are questions as to whether FIAT will ever be a
profitable company again. As for the USA. Here is a quote from the new
President of
FIAT as published on March 8th in Automotive News (autonews.com),

"FIAT won't bring its Alfa Romeo brand back to the United States any time
soon, says FIAT Auto CEO Herbert Demel.

Am I against Alfas' return to the USA? Absolutely not. Would I deny entry to
anyone for any reason into our club? I'd have to be crazy. If Alfa comes back
tomorrow I'll be the first to knock on their Marketing Dept. door. Why?
Because I'll be looking for the funding and members to grow our club and know
that
many of you will be buying new Alfas. But........and this is my belief based
on
my experience with the Porsche and Ferrari clubs that I belong to..... there
will be two clubs in one. The new owners will not be polishers and car show
attendees and few of them will be interested in track events. Socializing? ...
to a great extent. Membership turnover will probably be very high.

In any event, all of this is becoming a very moot point. Until there is a
believable committment from Alfa, GM or Alfa's future owner for a return to
the
USA I have a job to do as president of AROC. Every organization needs a
mission
or a focus point. My focus point is providing our members with a club which
has increasingly greater value to its members than it has had in previous
years. I'm focusing on the cars we own; not the cars we'll most likely never
see on
our streets.

In that regard our magazine is the bonding agent of our club. I fought hard
over the past three years and led the way to get an early termination of our
past publishers contract and succeeded. The new Alfa Owner magazine is focused
on the cars we own -- all the way through 1995 -- and is a quantum leap better
than any Alfa Owner Magazine I've ever seen and lots better than any
non-factory funded magazine. The countless emails I've had praising the new
magazine
give me satisfaction. We're not stopping there. The magazine will improve with
succeeding issues. The April Giulietta 50th Anniversary issue will be in full
color!. and there's more to come.

We're working on revamping our website and creating a Alfa marketplace like
none ever seen before. The tireless efforts of Erik Storhok, web chairman of
AROC will insure that. We're excited about the new ideas in this club and the
things that are happening now.

When I was in college I had a reputation as a gadfly. Today we call those who
rouse others,"pot-stirrers". I've been a member of AROC for many years and a
participant on this Digest for almost as many and I've rarely seen any
discussion about AROC. Since my March President's Message in the Alfa Owner
I've
spent dozens of hours answering emails from members who agree and dissagree
with
my positions.

I feel good about this because I've roused hundreds of you. I've gotten you
to think about our Alfa community; not just about our cars. And that's good.
Honest, forthright dissagreement can only mean learning about each other and
will lead the way to improvement and progress.

Thanks for giving me your views and teaching me so much. Leadership is much
about learning all you can about those you are supposed to lead. I'll do a
better job now.

P.S.












In a message dated 3/14/2004 5:01:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,
owner-alfa-digest@domain.elided writes:

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:13:15 -0600
From: "Peter Webb" <webb.p@domain.elided>
Subject: [alfa] AROC n' stuff

First, thanks Eric for the compliments you've been heaping on me the last 2
days.

I think the bottom line here is, we have 2 clubs within a club.   Lets
categorize it as drivers and polishers.   Marc Mosko isn't going to help
this situation by taking one side or the other.   I really didn't know how
to take the column when I first read it.   I did however like the letter by
George Linton stuck way in the back.   Please dig out your owner and give
that one a read.

If you haven't got the impression already, I'm of the driver category.   I
sign up for any track event that comes my way.  I'm in a small minority in
my local chapter and I continue fighting for it no matter what opposition I
meet.   Our president is sick of listening to me but I won't give up.   I'm
using the persistence and sense tactic.  I am, however, a minority in the
chapter as I probably am in the National.

So the fundamental question is how are BOTH going to survive and thrive
within AROC?   Beats me, but then I'm not the president.   So I'm going to
ask the AROC president out loud and in public to answer this question for
us.   I'll challenge him as I do our chapter president to show us you're the
right person for the job.  It doesn't end with a campaign or an election.

The challenge is laid.   Now it's up to Mosco to step up with the leadership
he campaigned on.

- -Peter

Mark,

I am very disappointed in your comments in the recent Alfa Owner.  I love
vintage cars as much as the next guy, but I like the newer Alfas just as much.
Why would you want to alienate the newer Alfa owners? I think youbre just
jealous that you can't drive or won't drive your vintage cars on rainy and
snowy
days. But the funny thing is that most vintage Alfa owners own newer Alfas as
daily drivers. Now if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black, I don't
know
what is? Case in point you want a vintage club, but drive a 164S and just
bought 91 Spider for your wife. You are by far worst than any politician I've
heard on trying to play on both sides of the fence!

You guys on the board are always bitching and moaning about new membership,
dues are not enough and we canbt compete with the other clubs.  Well here is
a
perfect opportunity to embrace new members and get up to par with the other
auto clubs, but instead you choose not to welcome new members, but push away
the
current members who own newer Alfas.  You wonder why members were complaining
about the dues increase thatbs because we get nothing for $60 except a
national convention.  Whenever I ask bwhy is this not like this?b or
bwhy canbt we
do this?b the answer was always bwell the other auto clubs have factory
backing and they more members so they collect more duesb.  Youbve got your
answers right in front of you if Alfa Romeo returns.

Is the club too big for you to handle?  Maybe thatbs why you want to shrink
the club to nothing so you can handle it.  Who are you to say that a vintage
Alfa owner enjoys their car more than me whom owns a newer Alfa and thatbs
why
they can join and not me?  Why would you want to push the youths that buy the
newer Alfas when they are the future of this club?  We give our time, energy
and ideas to the club only to get shot down by the old timers.  Is this type
of
club you want to run?  If so Ibm out!  You think that the new Alfa owners
wonb
t do events?  Try to run events with 60 yr. olds that donbt want to race or
autocross or the guy who has a vintage Alfa for investment who wonbt even
start
the engine for the fear of something might happen to it.

In you column:

1. b I wonder how they will fit in socially?b  How would you fit in
socially?  What the hell does this have to do with Alfa owners wanting to join
the
club because they enjoy their Alfas?

2. bWhat kind of car talk would you hear at events and dinner meeting?b
Since when did you become the discussion police?  Donbt listen if you
donbt like
the talk, it not for everybody. I donbt like the car talk at events now, but
I
bm still a member!

3. bDo you think they will take their cars to the track for autocross and
time trials?b  Hello more of the guys who participle are newer Alfa owners.
Most
of the vintage guys are afraid of breaking something they canbt get parts
for
or theybre worth too much to drive.  Been to a BMW event lately?  Its mostly
the newer M3bs and 3 series car running in the events.

4. bWould tech sessions interest them?b  Hell, tech sessions donbt
interest
me, Ibve got no time to deal with all the problem I face with Alfa Romeobs
I
let my Alfa mechanic deal with them.  But do I enjoy drive them ABSOLUTELY!

5. bBesides a few of our club members, what kind of person will buy an
Alfa?b
  Mostly Alfa guys!  Donbt worry I doubt they will join the AROC if donbt
really enjoy their Alfa.  Hey itbs not mandatory to join if you own an Alfa.
So
WHY WORRY ABOUT THEM?  There are plenty of Alfa owners right now who drive
Alfas just to drive them and have no idea the heritage of Alfa Romeo and are
not
in the club.  Does it bother you that much?

6. bHow are going to mix with the new Alfa owners?  Will we mix at all?b
What we 5 yr. Old and donbt like to share our toys with the kids or are
going
to run home to tell mommy they picked on us?  How do you think members get
along in the Porsche, BMW, Mercedes or even the Nissan club?  Just fine, they
donb
t judge if you have vintage model or not, theybre there to enjoy the cars as
much as the vintage owners do. Anyone who'll join the club will be an
enthusiast because you won't join a car club because you don't care for the
car.

bThe Advantages are clear.b  Clear to whom may I ask?

1. bAlfa Owner magazine will become the authority on the purchase and
maintenance of older Alfas.b  The Alfa Owner magazine is an authority of how
not to
have a club magazine right now!  When you can compare the AROC to the other
auto club than webll discuss the Alfa Owner magazine.  Oops Ibm sorry, I
forgot,
itbll never happen with your thinking.  Actually with your thinking there
may
be no club at all soon!  The Alfa Owner magazine is a disgrace to the club!

2. bMore importantly, it will influence their rising values.b  Now how
would
that happen?  The market will influence their value, more importantly Ebay
will influence their value!  Alfa Owner magazine has never set any precedence
on
pricing of Alfas and it never will.  The cars listed in the Alfa owner
magazine are ridiculously too high.  That why they are listed in there like a
thousand times!

3. bAll members will have something in common, as their interest will lie in
older Alfas.b  What are you trying to say here?  That us Alfa owner have
nothing in common now?  That the newer Alfa owners have nothing in common with
the
vintage Alfa owners?  Have you been to an Alfa event lately?????  We all have
one thing in common OUR LOVE FOR ALFA ROMEObS!  I have friends who own
Milanos, GTV6 and 164bs, I also have friends who own Montreals, Duettos and
GTVs.  We
all get along and we always have something to talk about.  Youbre trying to
say we donbt have respect for one and another, but its this comment that is
disrespectful to all Alfa owner and AROC members.

4. bAlfa owners will invest more time and money in their cars to take
advantage of their appreciating assets.b  What you need to make the AROC a
vintage
club for people to do that?  The people who want to invest their time and
money
will do so regardless.  Some Alfas will appreciate, some are at their peaks
and some never will.  Case in point my friend has 2 Montreals, GTV and a
Duetto.
 He invests his time and money regardless if theybre worth $20,000 or
$2,000.
 Its because he likes the cars.  Why do people invest $20,000 in a Honda
thatb
s worth $10,000?  Would I?  No, I donbt care for them.  Will Honda
appreciate
in value because he invested his time and money? NO!  My friend also has a
Montreal production number #002, but it is actually the first production
Montreal and its different from all other Montreals.  He wrote to SCM and they
told
him hebd be lucky to get $15,000 (peak value).  By turning the AROC into a
vintage club or changing the magazine wonbt increase the value of his
Montreal.
What are you a Clinton economics theorist?

5.    bIt will also increase the number of advertisers (and advertising
dollars) wanting to maintain a presence in our magazine in order to capture
sales
from Alfa owners.b  Who will advertise?  Re-originals?  Thatbs it because
if
Alfa Romeo comes back youbre not going their funding with a vintage only
club
when theybre trying to sell new cars and change their image.  How many
vintage
only clubs you know do well?  Do they do as well as the Porsche, BMW, Mercedes
etc. clubs?  Remember all these automakers have a rich racing heritage too,
but they donbt alienate their member because they own a new car!  You want
advertising dollars, pray for the return of Alfa Romeo so you can get their
funding, get aftermarket manufacturer interest in supplying custom and
performance
upgrades as well as restoration parts.  You want new membership and more due
money, pray for the return of Alfa Romeo and embrace the newer Alfa owners.
Having new models and new blood in the Alfa world can only be to our
advantage.
With recognition of the Alfa Romeo brand name will come the after market
vendors
and allow all Alfa fans to customize, upgrade and repair their Alfas better.
With new members comes new revenues and maybe we can get up to par with the

The world changes and some people want to hold on to the old ways and don't
believe in changes, but if Alfa kept those old believes of lets build a car to
go fast and not worry about anything else than we probably would of seen the
end of Alfa Romeo long time ago. Instead we got a beautiful new GTV and
Spider,
an award winning 156 that's the envy of all the other manufacturers and the
147 what else do I have to say?
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