Re: 164 L or S, and Speed

[jonathan coates <alfa@domain.elided>]

In message , C M Smith <cmsmith@domain.elided> writes
>Great debate we're having. Hope this is helping someone decide which
>version of 164 to buy.
>
>How fast do you guys like to drive down there?
>
>I do agree that technically a gearbox should be set up to produce maximum
>speed at maximum power output rather than maximum rpm, that's 500 rpm lower
>for the 164 S and 700 rpm lower for the 164 L. However, for the real world,
>redline top speed, although a bit lower, produces quicker acceleration and
>allows a 5 speed box to be closer ratio. That's why 6 speeds are showing up
>(and 7 speeds for GP cars). There is no perfect compromise. ( My factory
>manual gives peak power rpm as 5600 for the L and 5800 for the S, the
>brochure gives 5800 rpm for both models, adjust the math according to your
>confidence in each source).
Snip
>
>I regret to advise I have not yet explored the top speed of my L. At 220
>km/hr (136.7 mph) she's still pulling and I believe 142 mph is her probable
>top speed, if the engine can make it's peak power. Trouble is, I drive at
>an elevation in excess of 1000 metres (3400 ft) so my poor L is down on
>power from those cars lucky enough to travel closer to sea level.
>
My L used to be (allegedly) capable of slightly better than your 142, I
saw (in a dream, maybe) 148 once upon a time. Couldn't say where, but UK
Alfisti might know that M180 is not the correct wheel nut thread.
>It's a rare road car that is properly sorted and needs significant aero
>aids at speeds below 140 mph or so, My SAAB 9000 turbo tops out at 222
>km/hr (at any sensible elevation, as the turbo keeps pumping more air in
>when it gets a bit thin). The car is perfectly stable with its tiny rubber
>lip spoiler on the hatch, stock suspension and 195/60 15 V rated Pirellis.
>Ditto the Alfa 164 L. Both have a modest chin spoiler which is very
>important. In fact a chin spoiler is so effective it's the best mod for
>high speed motoring, even more important than stiffer springs and shocks.
>The stiffer springs don't help much if your front end is unloading due to
>air stuffing itself under the front of the car, I've never felt insecure
>about the back end of a modern car travelling fast.
The Saab 9000 should be a good car, it's a copy of the 164. Alfa 164,
Fiat Croma, Lancia Thema and Saab 9000 all use the same development
floorpan AFAIK, except that the Alfa is better!
- -- 
jonathan coates

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