Re: [ihc] wheels again, dual>single conversions?

[bearbvd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Greg Hermann)]

At 8:16 AM 5/10/04, David Raistrick wrote:
>Hey guys.
>
>They have about 4" of backspacing, about 6" wide rim.  I have 5 matching.
>
>Can anyone identify what truck these wheels might have come from?
>
>Now to describe the "problem."
>
>First, let me describe the bolt-circle area on the duals, which mate
>perfectly to the drum. (I tried).  These have ~6.25" backspace, 6" wide
>rim. http://www.icantclick.org/gallery/b130/20040425_195131
>
>The bolt-circle area is a flat section of metal with 6 holes.  The holes
>are chamfered, alternating one in, one out.

The word here is 'coined'.

 Presumably this is to assist
>the connection between the two wheels when installed on the rear. There
>are no other bumps, valleys, or domes.

You do need to be sure to install the wheels (when dualled) so that the
raised side of the coining on one wheel fits into the dimpled side on the
other wheel. The lugs over the dimpled coining ARE going to screw onto the
stud a bit further than those over the raised sides.

I believe that IH used 9/16" lug studs on most (perhaps all) of their 1
tons. In the case of mine, I have found Dorman studs in 5/8" which will fit
the IH hubs & drums perfectly. IMHO, this is a prudent upgrade.  I also
upgrade to the heaviest, tallest lug nuts that Dorman makes in the 5/8"
size. Yep, I stay with left and right threads.

  The drums have 6 studs installed
>in a flat circle of metal, with chamfers at the studs for the chamfers
>from the wheels to set inside.  (query:  Are there special nuts to use on
>the dually wheels, with a chamfer instead of a taper?)

Nope--the Dorman nuts work fine with the Budd wheels.
>
>Now...the wheels that I have currently:
>
>The bolt circle is /not/ flat. Instead, it "domes" outward, away from the
>drum surface, in the area of each lug hole.  All holes are chamfered in
>the same direction.  In this image of the spare you can see what I'm
>talking about.  Dialup beware, large image:
>http://www.icantclick.org/gallery/b130/20040425_195126?full=1
>
>There is a formed lip that runs around the hub opening on these wheels, as
>well.

NO idea what these (front ??) wheels are from.

On at least SOME (the 4x4's for sure) pre- '69 1 tons, IH used dually
wheels ONLY on the rear when a truck was equipped with duallys !! Yep--from
the factory, the front ALWAYS came with single type wheels !!

But--at least as far as the Budd 17" split rims used in this application
went--the lug area of the wheel centers was FLAT--very similar to the
duals, EXCEPT that the lug holes were all coined to the SAME side--not
altenating as the dual wheels were.

At least on the 1 ton 4x4's, until '69, IH did NOT provide front hubs with
the wheel flange further outboard so as to accomodate the deeper backset of
dually wheels ! After '69, they did, but that was also when they switched
to the 8 hole lug pattern on the 1 tons.

I cured the mixed up wheel situation on my 1300 4x4 (not to mention the 12"
front drums) by swapping on a set of 6 lug hubs, 14" drums and backing
plate assemblies 'borrowed' from a '60's vintage Dodge W400.

I do not know whether IH played this mixed wheel game on any of their  2x4
1 tons with duals, let alone what the story was as far back as the B
series. The back-set you have described for your front wheels DOES sound
like they are single wheels, though. If so, they MAY have come from the
factory, but the dish you describe in them sure doesn't sound right. Might
be that you have some 3/4 ton front wheels from another IH ????

You haven't said whether your B-130 is a 2x4 or a 4x4, nor have you said
what size the wheels are. I do have some 17" Budd 6 hole (single) split
rims around if two of them might help---

Greg

>
>Now, when these wheels are installed on the drums, and the lugs are
>tightened...this "dome" section gets crushed.  First down to the level of
>the drum's bolt circle, then further, into the chamfers around the studs,
>as well.  The metal doesn't feel particulary strong, at least not at the
>end of a 2ft tire iron.  when crushed, they deform the bolt-circle a fair
>bit, including causing the formed lip to curl "out" away from the drum.
>
>These where crushed before I even took them off...or, at least, the rears
>are, which I haven't touched with a wrench.
>
>
>Since I have /no/ way to reliably return these bolt circles to true (short
>of sending them to a wheel repair shop), I don't see much reason in
>keeping them.  And even if I could return them to true, They'd just crush
>again when bolted to the drum...:(
>
>If anyone knows what truck these might have come off of, I'd be interested
>to find out of the drums on /those/ trucks "dome" out around the lugs, to
>match the wheels?
>
>
>Now, Singling the Dually.
>
>Has anyone out there converted a dually to run singles?  I did some
>measuring, and found that the rear track of the truck is 4.5" narrower
>then the front track, right now. (this takes into account the difference
>in tread width of the front and rear tires).
>
>Since the duals have 6" of backspace, the front drums must be much wider
>then a truck that started life with singles up front, right?  ...And the
>rear drums, or rear end, would be narrower, as well.
>
>It looks like I could square up the track with 2 inch spacers (and longer
>studs) on the rear...How square should the track be?  Do IH trucks
>normally have a 4" difference in track?
>
>
>
>So what do to now...spend over $1000 on 5 new wheels for the 6x7.25, or
>try to do an axle conversion.  Sticking with 2wd, that means I need a
>solid front axle from something, and a 1 ton or 3/4 ton 2wd rear end.
>Short of an F450, I'm not finding anything that's got disc front brakes on
>a solid front axle....any suggestions?  Or I could stay IHC with a 69?-73
>front and rear axle and stick with drums.  This is probably the easiest
>route...though none of them are cheap, it seems.
>
>I don't feel comfortable installing new tires on the current wheels, and I
>only have 4 of the duals. (now wouldn't that look funny...:)  So I've
>gotta do something.
>
>In the good news department I found a shop that's going to cut the hitch
>and weld in a reciever tube and safety chain hooks for me on Wednesday.
>Probably will be in it under 200 bucks including parts. Pressure washed
>the engine, transmission, and rear end to scrub off some of the grim this
>weekend, as well.
>
>Ah well.
>
>..david
>
>
>--
>        David Raistrick    http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
>keen@domain.elided           http://www.expita.com/nomime.html