Re: DOT Approved Stainless Steel Brake Lines Or Not? (Was:RE: Pete's Loose Ends)

["T.R.E. Jr." <T_R_E_Jr@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

---It's all cool. I am sure Tom M. did his lift kit well over a year before
I did mine. I did mine in `01, so at the time of his write-up, I am sure
they weren't DOT approved. They have the ink-jet stamp down the line
saying they are and the box and website says it, so I am going on
good faith that they are.

---Maybe the stainless braided has to go through harder testing or maybe
there is nothing that says you cannot sell something before it is DOT
approved. I don't know. Someone who fabricates their own auto parts will
have to touch on that. Maybe it is simply like you said, there isn't much
of a way to keep an eye on the inside lining to know about failure before it
happens. I would think Teflon myself, but surely different companies have
different linings... could be polyurethane for all I know.

---It was lots of research most of which was taken from Tom M.'s write up
that got me the well built kit that I have. Thanks Tom. If it wasn't for
people posting the good and bad points I would not have been able to tell
them what I expected out of my lift. It is 2 years now and no rear-sagging,
and their Nitro shocks are holding up pretty good.

---I haven't forgotten John, I will pick up a complete kit from you
(recessed spring plates and u-bolts) to replace the shoddy set I bought from
_____ :O (can't say that here, someone might read it and get their law dogs
after me). All I can do for now is keep an eye on them and keep them tight.
I will pick up a set as soon as I get my foot out of my rump and back on the
floor. FWIW, I see humor in your signature that most people just don't 
understand
unless they've BTDT.

---Good luck finding one. Hope you have her up and running soon regardless 
of
what you use... well, with the exception of duct tape. ;)

---Thank you,
-T.R.E.Jr.
-`73 Scout II (StoneThrower)
-`51 Farmall H (Heinz)
-`49 IH fridge (presently unnamed and in need of a compressor)
-`49 Plymouth Special Deluxe 4-door Sedan (Papapalooza)


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Binder" <binder@domain.elided>
To: "T.R.E. Jr." <T_R_E_Jr@domain.elided>; "Binder" <Binder@domain.elided>
Cc: "John F" <john@domain.elided>; "IHC Digest"
<IHC-Digest@domain.elided>; <tsm1@domain.elided>
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 8:22 PM
Subject: DOT Approved Stainless Steel Brake Lines Or Not? (Was:RE: Pete's
Loose Ends)

> Hi,
>
> I really hate to belabor this point...  I s'pose it's minor in the Big
> Picture of things.  But I just wanted you to know where I get my info.
>
> You said:
>
> : ---I'm sorry, the braided stainless steel lines from Skyjacker are DOT
> : approved. I normally say that, but don't want to sound like I am making
> a
>
> Hmmm... not that I'm disputing what you're saying...  ***BUT*** I'm taking
> Tom M's words on blind faith! ;-) At:
> http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/faq/brakelines.htm he says:
>
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> When I ordered the 4" Skyjacker Softride kit for my '77 Scout II, I
> decided
> I needed some longer brake lines.. Skyjacker sells lines @ $64 for the
> front, and $33 for the rear, but they're braided stainless steel, and NOT
> DOT approved.
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
> Sooo, that's one vote "yes", another "no". Looks like a draw to me.  I
> guess
> for the definitive answer, I'd have to call Skyjacker.  Maybe they weren't
> DOT approved at one point, but now are? Curiously, most of the braided
> lines
> I've seen are *NOT* DOT approved.  Then again, I've only looked at 2 or 3.
>
> So why dwell on DOT approval?  One reason is that I was told a little
> while
> ago that if you use a part that should be but is not DOT approved (e.g.;
> brakes, brake lines, etc.) and you have a wreck, you can be held liable
> for
> damges - they were DOT approved when they left the factory, you or someone
> "tampered" with them... (IF it's discovered via an officious insurance
> adjuster, etc., etc.).  That's hearsay... dunno if there's a ring of truth
> to it or not.  Any insurance/legal gurus on the digest? Not my area of
> expertise. But why not have a DOT approved line? In this, we seem to
> agree.
>
> : sales pitch. FWIW, if you can find DOT approved braided stainless steel
> : lines, make sure you ask what the benefits are on them. Most braided
> : stainless steel have a higher pressure rating and allow for more firm
> and
> : steady braking power, and definitely find out whether they are
> : DOT approved
> : or not. Also, Back Country Binders used to carry braided stainless steel
>
> Common sense would seem to support this. I don't dispute it. I am aware of
> some of the advantages of a braided s/s line.  A portion of the "spongy"
> feel of brake pedals can be attributed to expansion of the rubber flex
> brake
> lines. As brake system pressure increases, the lines expand, letting the
> pedal travel more. These stainless line kits prevent expansion, thereby
> giving a much firmer feeling pedal. They also do not deteriorate with age.
> However since there are DOT approved stainless lines, I wonder: "What's
> wrong with the non-DOT approved lines?".  Did they actually fail DOT
> testing
> or were they never submitted for approval? Why not? There may be a darker
> side to non-DOT approval.  I could be wrong but... My guess is probably
> that
> since stainless-steel lines don't bulge as they age, and since the Teflon
> (or is it Kevlar? I b'leive it's Teflon!) lining is concealed behind the
> braid, there's no easy way to inspect the lines for warning signs of
> imminent failure. Teflon is pretty fragile, so it has to be protected from
> physical damage.  Although some manufacturers armor their Teflon hoses
> with
> Kevlar, most protect the Teflon with an external sheath of braided
> stainless-steel wire. I'm not sure how the stainless DOT approved lines
> overcome these limitations.  Maybe they're not Teflon or whatever.  But I
> digress... (and you expected and knew that, right?!). ;-)
>
> : lines, shake John F.'s tree and see if they still offer them. I
> : am sure they
> : still do.
>
> I appreciate the referral to The Fleckster.  However, I have NO rear
> brakes
> at this time. I need to get a line back in place, ASAP. And I need to make
> the trip to AutoZone anyhow (PS pump!). So, for my purposes, I think
> Bendix
> #77079 should suffice (e.g. for a F-350). It needs to be fixed before
> Monday! ;-)
>
> : ---Thank you,
>
> NP & You're welcome!  I don't mean to be argumentative, I'm just slightly
> anal retentive or something! I must analyze to death before I act, and
> once
> committed, I'm usually not easily swayed!  %^}  I may see if there are any
> Skyjacker dealers in Tulsa that might be open this weekend (rots of
> ruck!).