Re: reverse shackle on an 800

[tsm1@domain.elided (Tom Mandera)]

Okay, Dan.. here's my $0.02

>that has anybody done this??  Just how hard is it?  Is there some kind of
>kit available?  Looking at Jim Weed's details on his homepage, it 

I haven't done it, but I've sure been thinkin' about it and scheming how
I'll pull it off.. since I *don't* have a welder available to me at the
moment (though I *do* have an extra Scout II to drive while welding is done
at someone's shop..).. I just mailed off another letter to get my Scout back
from that crooked body man.. if not, I get to spend Christmas in Small
Claims.. anyhow...

>to me that his front springs are under the axle.  I thought that when you
>did a reverse shackle, you put the springs on top.  So do you put them on

Not necessarily.  You can locate the springs above or below the axle with a
reverse shackle.. it's up to you.  Jim shows under, since that is the stock
place for the springs, though Bill Thebert will tell you he has a spring
over f/r w/ a reversed front shackle.

>top, or leave them under?  Also, what kind of driveshaft would you use?
>Jim said he used one off of a F**d, but some of you have been talking
>about cv's.  How much difference is there when doing a reverse shackle

The Ford shaft Jim is talking about may have a regular U-joint at both
ends.. which is fine for a stock height (or mildly lifted) Scout.  Most of
us are looking at around 4" of additional lift at the same time as the
reverse shackle.  This increase in height makes the front diveline angle
terrible, enough to cause severe problems with conventional U-joints, thus a
CV at the transfer case.

Also, to put things in perspective.

When I put 4" springs and a reverse shackle under the front my '72 Scout II,
I'll need to lengthen the driveline as well as change the slip joint, and
use a CV on the t'case.  This all costs.

Roughly, to modify my current 'shaft, is about $100.. plus $45 for a new
Yoke on the transfer case (CV yoke is dfferent from a U-joint yoke)

A new front driveline locally is $260, cut to fit, CV at the t'case, plus
$45 for the yoke.

A new front driveline from Gloeco or Six States or... is around $185 plus
$15 s/h.  This includes the CV and such, and I'll still need the $45 yoke.

Actually, I think the modify is closer to $150 now that I think of it..

So, my solution is to go with a NEW front driveshaft from Gleoco, but NOT
the massive 15" travel unit, but  amore conventional 7" or less slip joint.
(They said the 15" wears quicker than the shorter travel joints.. and since
I plan to DRIVE my Scout daily, and in the snow/ice of a Montana winter..)

The rear (spring over) will stay the same for a while.. a Scout II with
everything in the usual places, with a spring over on the back, will just
survive with good old U-joints.  Change 'em out annually though (about $65
to have both joints replaced and the 'line re-balanced).  Some people say I
can keep my stock 'shaft, others say it'll need lengthened.  If I find it's
too short, I'll have a local shop lengthen it.

>between the 80/800 and the II's?  I know I won't be attempting to do this
>until next summer at the earliest, but I would like some input before hand
>so I know how much it is going to take.  I have access to stick welders,

I think the idea is the same, and even how you go about it shouldn't differ
much.  The only thing to check is that, when you're done making the spring
towers and the new rear shackle, you *should* have the spring eyes level.
On a Scout II, this means 11" towers and the 6" or so shackles.  I don't
know what you can get away with on a Scout 800, but remember that the
shorter those towers are, the better.. support and integrity, anyhow.

Also remember you'll want to put a crossbar between the towers.. I plan to
use some angle stock on the towers that'll stick out into the "middle", and
then bolt a piece of angle (or channel) between the two towers.. that way,
if I do find it limits articulation (without breaking welds) I can
disconnect the support.  

>and if there is anything hairy that can be removed from the Scout that
>needs to be welded, a guy Dad works with could probably weld it.  So

Only tricky piece would be the custom rear shackle.. on the Scout II, it has
to be "necked down" from the wide frame to the narrow springs.. I've never
looked closely at a Scout 800 frame...

>welding shouldn't be a problem.  How much time and money should I expect
>to sink into this little endeavor?  Any and all help is/will be _greatly_
>appreciated.  
>If there is any chance of messing up the frame, don't worry, I have an
>extra!!

Money?  I figure I'll spend $50 in parts (per Jim's page) of misc. steel,
the bushings are supposed to be around $40, and I'm budgeting about $100 for
a welder to fab the shackles and weld the front towers in place.. though
it'll probably be more.  I'll also have double shock mounts put in place up
front at the same time.

-Tom Mandera, Helena MT
http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout
'72 Scout II - will I have it back soon to start the major transformation???
'77 Scout II - 4cyl driver / parts chaser for now.. gets built later..