Re: antifreeze

[alex.fadeev@xxxxxxxxxxx]

"Sanders, Ron" <rls5@domain.elided> wrote:
> Tis the season.  Has anyone found a suitable coolant/antifreeze 
alternative
> for BMW cooling systems?  Many manufacturers use aluminum and plastic
> cooling system parts similar to BMW that don't respond well to some of 
the
> older corrosive coolant formulas.  If possible, I would like to avoid a 
trip
> to the dealer for a jug of $10 coolant if I can buy a comparable 
substitute
> at the local auto parts store. 
> 
> Ron Sanders
> RSanders@domain.elided
> 
> 93 325is
> 92 525i


Ron,
After  local dealers bumping the price BMW antifreeze past $15/gallon I 
asked the same question and got the replies enclosed at the bottom of this 
message.
Long story short, I drained the BMW coolant out from all of my bimmers, 
flushed the cooling systems thoroughly and filled it with orange Dex-Cool 
that goes for around $6/gallon at WallMart.

YMMV,
alex f


"Gary Derian" <rlicolumbus@domain.elided> wrote:
Here is some good info and corroborates Dave's pH data.
http://www.babcox.com/editorial/us/us60024.htm  The orange Dex-Cool has a 
pH
of about 8.3.  I have used it for 3 years and still have the original
radiator in my 135,000 mile, 11 year old car.  Of course, correlation,
especially a sample size of one, does not infer (or imply) causality.

Gary Derian

Sean Cordone <cordone@domain.elided> wrote:
> Speaking of plastic radiator failures, Dave Walker (president of the
> Rocky Mountain BMW CCA chapter) sent this excellent tech info to the E34
> 530/540 mailing list (bmw@domain.elided) awhile back. Interesting
> hypothesis on plastic tank longevity; if anybody can answer the question
> on coolant pH I bet it's someone on this list.
>
> Cross-posted w/ the author's permission.
>
> --SC
> (540 running MB coolant)
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>
> No doubt a few of you get the Star mag as well as Roundel. As much as I
> like Bimmers, I gotta say the M-B guys have a few superb technical
> writers on their staff. The most-recent Star, July/Aug. '01, has a great
> article on cooling systems. This is of more than passing interest as I
> just snapped the neck off of my @#$! plastic-tanked radiator last
> weekend at the track. An OEM Behr unit cost me $480 at discount--and I
> was thrilled to be able to get one on short notice and have another club
> member deliver it to me at the track so I could drive home! BMW does a
> lot of things very well, and few things are just plain idiotic. These
> radiators are notorious for embrittlement over time, and they
> practically all start failing at 5+ years.
> Anyway, I learned a couple important things from reading this Star
> article. I'll excerpt one passage:
>
>      "The latest M-B Specifications for Service Products lists 45
>      approved coolant products made around the world, from South Africa
>      to Korea, but non are available in the U.S. or Canada! The only
>      approved antifreeze that Americans and Canadians can buy is MBUSA's
>      part number 000 989 08 25. While most U.S. antifreeze meets
>      corrosion protection levels specified by M-B, its pH is
>      unsatisfactory. Fresh domestic antifreeze has a pH in the 9.5 to 10
>      range, which is extremely basic. According to M-B, the allowable pH
>      range of the coolant _mixture_ is 6.5 to 8.5. MBUSA's antifreeze
>      has a measured pH of 7.5 to 7.8, which, when mixed with water,
>      drops to 7 to 7.5. The buffering (pH maintenance chemistry) of
>      MBUSA antifreeze is excellent, so the coolant mixture remains
>      neutral, neither acidic nor basic, throughout its service life.
>      Domestic coolant mixtures remain very basic, starting with a pH of
>      10 or higher and slowly absorbing acids, dropping to 8.5 to 9.0
>      during normal life."
>
>
> I can hear the cry already: But of COURSE M-B would never approve the
> liquid-gold (er, blue) $14/gallon BMW coolant, which must be just as
> good! I don't think so, and here's why. The article continues:
>
>      "In our experience, radiators with plastic header tanks last far
>      longer and have far fewer broken upper hose necks if factory
>      antifreeze is used. Look at radiators with broken necks, and you'll
>      clearly see where overly basic coolant has eaten away the plastic,
>      which has become embrittled. Most failed necks that we see are
>      actually crumbly. We have found much longer radiator life in cars
>      using MBUSA coolant exclusively." Credit: Stu Ritter, Technical
>      Editor, Star Magazine, July/August 2001, pp. 74-76.
>
>
> My point being, when my upper hose neck snapped off, it blew wonderful
> blue BMW coolant all over my engine compartment and down the left side
> of my car. The P.O. had ALWAYS had the car serviced at the dealer, and
> so is there any reason to believe it ever had anything in it besides BMW
> coolant? Not only that, but given the high numbers of plastic radiators
> that have failed on these cars, and that many (but not all, certainly)
> have been factory-maintained, it makes me wonder about the quality of
> the BMW OEM coolant. Or radiators. Or both. By the way, can any of you
> verify that the BMW coolant is non- diluted; i.e., you buy it in "full
> strength?" That's what my dealer told me--and charged me 3X$14/gal for
> the stuff!--making it seem even more outrageous. In the grand scheme of
> things, $42 worth of coolant wouldn't be a huge burden if it protected
> the engine, radiator, and other parts properly. But I'm not convinced it
> does. Since all the cool blue coolant is now gone, and I don't keep the
> stuff around, I can't test it with a pH meter. Maybe I'll try to get
> some just so I can do this test. If someone wants to send me a sample
> (s) to check I'll be happy to do it--or, if someone already knows the pH
> characteristics of BMW coolant, step forward! In the mean time, I'm
> buzzin' down to my local M-B dealer and buying their stuff.
>
> Dave Walker
> '95 540i/6 Sport

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