VW wheels, ..yeah, I got a bunch

[O2002@xxxxxxx]

In a message dated 12/26/98 1:42:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, Chris Bishop
writes:
>  As a general VW freak, I have to speak up about the VW wheels on 02's...
>  VW has three different lengths of lug bolts. The really short ones are only
>  for steel wheels, and the other two are for cast aluminum wheels. (GTI
>  wheels, etc.) a junkyard or trip to the VW dealer is all you need to to to
>  obtain the proper size lug bolts. Simple as that.

Chris & list,
Quoting myself from the first reply within this thread:
"The problem I see is that the OE VW wheels don't have the common 60 degree
conical seats for their bolts like BMW has. Volkswagen uses a radiused seat,
and the bolts have to match." 

If I read you right, you seem to be acknowledging the difference in the ball-
type lug seats on the OE VW wheels.  That's good, cuz wheel bolts are a
critical fastener, and if you don't utilize the design intent load bearing
surface, you are severely compromised.  Ever see a wheel come off, or develop
a crack?  It happens too frequently at the track.  It's a lot more likely to
occur with a standard cone-shaped BMW bolt tightened against an OE VW wheel's
proprietary radius (almost ball-shaped) lug seat.  This may or may not be
applicable for the various aftermarket VW wheels.  
For anyone that's suffered through me explaining the same thing for the third
time, I apologize.  But it seems not to have been clear to all, and as it's a
safety concern, I can be a little redundant.  To wit, after the last time I
wrote about OE VW wheel bolts special shape, somebubba followed up saying: <
<As far as lug bolts go, BMW makes several different lengths. The black
annodized ones are pretty pricey, at nearly $5 each.>>    ??hmm...maybe the $5
goes toward processing those steel bolts with a coating more suited for
aluminum?...just kiddin', MP ;o) 

This stuff is on my mind still cuz I spent the afternoon digging out &
mounting the nokian haks for my older gti commuter.  Last month I bought a
second, nicer VW commuter car [91 gti 16v 2.0], from a knowledgable 'car-guy'
[who is an automotive engineer, GT3 racer & race track board member].  Well,
it seems even a smart car-guy can overlook this wheel/bolt fitment stuff, as I
found the sharp Compomotive wheels [brought back from his native England] were
attached with the original VW bolts.  Problem was, these aftermarket wheels
have 60 degree conical lug seats!  Good thing I've got a lot of BMW spares, as
I needed a full bolt set.  BTW, just how long are the longest OE BMW bolts? -
the longest I've got are approximately 54 mm overall / 28 mm shank.  Can
anybody [Michel?] please provide me with any other dimensions & BMW part
numbers?  When I need a longer BMW-type wheel bolt, [like to go through
spacers] I currently use the expen$ive BBS grade 10.9 bolts marked #2326.
These are about 64 mm overall / 37 mm shank length.  

Chris [quoted up top], you mentioned 3 lengths of VW bolts from the dealer.  I
wonder if you could pass along the dimensions & part # of the longest.  I've
got some VW late A1 parts microfiche that shows the alloys to have p/n
321-601-139C.  I don't know if that's what I have on hand, but mine measure
approximately 47 mm overall / 26 mm shank.  

As to using the GTI wheels on a BMW, I had previously written:
"If the short VW bolts are enough for your application, you're ok.  But if you
need longer bolts for any reason, or lugnuts for the studs on an 02, I don't
know where you'd get them with the correct VW radius.  It's easier to fit BMW
wheels & bolts on a VW than the other way around. ...."

Here's how things can 'stack up' & create a problem in some instances, I know
cuz it happened to me.  Long time ago, I put E24 front calipers on a 2002, and
needed to go plus-one on the 13" wheels to clear them.  This was way before I
ever owned any VW myself, but I knew the A1 GTI  were 14"dia, 4x100 with the
same hub size as BMW.  I expected their 38 mm offset to be a problem, but
figured it was worth checking.  I know a lot of people run 02s with 35 mm
offset [as with E30 14x6].  But on this car, even with a 30 mm offset, a
195/60 tire under high g's can catch a groove on the inboard sidewall, from
interfering with the tierod/steering arm.  So I borrowed a couple types of VW
wheels to test fit, and noted the lug seats required VW-type bolts.  With 26
mm of bolt shank to work with, the GTI style of VW wheel used up 8 mm from its
thickness.  That left 18 mm of bolt to get through the 02's new E21 rotor [~7
mm thick] before hitting the hub's threads.  Subtract another 2 mm for the
point, and only 9 mm of [6 threads] remains for engagement.  That's almost
acceptable.  But I would have to add spacers to deal with the FWD offset, and
there wasn't enough bolt length to accommodate them.  I gave up on using OE VW
wheels on that car.  And I never got a solution for the non-conical, VW shaped
lugnuts I would need at the rear wheel's studs.  YMMV, definitely.  If anyone
has _actually_ found a hardware fix for this, please advise.
   
Regrads the 4x4" PCD, there aren't many applications for that (virtually no
popular German cars).  Seventies GM Skyhawk/Vega/ Monza had 'em.  Four-inch
bolt circle was also found on AH Sprite, Rover Mini, MG Midgets - and of
course, 4x4" PCD BWA wheels were available to fit some of these British cars.

Here's a couple links for fitment info.  The Hollander site is where the
'bible' of wheel identification is offered. 
<A HREF="http://www.enkei.com/wheeldb2.asp";>Enkei Online - Wheel Size Database
</A>    
<A HREF="http://hollander-auto-parts.com/";>http://hollander-auto-parts.com/
</A> 
enjoy yer holidays!
 ///  J o h n   A h o
motor city chapter 

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