TRANNY CONVERSION - 4 Speed auto -----> 5 spd. manual - THE LIST

[bill@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

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Dear Biff:

RE: TRANNY CONVERSION - 4 Speed auto -----> 5 spd. manual - THE LIST

Hears what I collected on the 5 speed conversion. Hope it helps as it
does sound somewhat complicated without good advise. One piece of advise
I thought was smart was 
to buy a wrecked Bimmer at auction, etc., so you could have all the
parts you needed. 
A used trammy will cost you about what you could spend buying the entire
car at a insurance auction. It might be hard to find your car but it
sounded like a wise idea. 
I didn't list everything or everyone who replyed but this is the best of
it.

Anyways here's the list of suggestions I received, hope it is helpful!

I MUST THANK EVERYONE WHO HELP ME AND TOOK THE TIME TO HELP A MAN IN
NEED! THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH! Special thanks to Simar!

GENE WROTE:

Bill, Here is Michael O's original post after the conversion.  I was
researching making the swap from my 5 speed in my 87 535is to my 83 633,
but in checking the parts fiche, there seems to have been a lot of parts
that changed over during 85 so I scrapped the idea, and instead found an
86
635 with a 5 speed.  I'm here in Sacramento and there have been some
pretty
good deals showing up here on E24's.

I've got some other old posts on the subject if you are still
interested.

GeneM.

- ----------

MICHAEL WROTE:

> From: Michael Osborne <mwosborne@domain.elided>
>  
> You have heard it right.  The conversion of my EH auto to a 5 speed OD is
> done.  The total cost of the swap was right at $2,100 including parts and
> labor.  Steve Haygood with the 6 series register did the swap at his shop
> in GA.  I had gotten labor prices local for as much as $3K with the
> mechanic telling my I was nuts for wanting to do such a thing.  If you
want
> to budget for this swap figure about $2,500 for parts and labor and you
> will be safe.
> 
> Except for a few loose ends with the interior which I will talk about in
a
> minute the car feels as if it was born with the 5 speed.  There is no
> vibration or problems with the engine management system at all.  The Auto
> EH tranny gets it orders from the same computer box that tells the engine
> what to do.  This is very rare and as my car was at the very end of one
> production year and the beginning of the other it has some unique
> qualities.  There was concern that the engine would not run correctly
with
> out the signals from the tranny but this does not seem to be the case. 
Let
> me put this another way.  If the ECU is acting different because the
tranny
> is not giving it signals I would just rather it keep acting funny (car
runs
> very good).  
> 
> Steve did an exceptional job on the swap.  Everything that Steve has ever
> told me about my car has been correct.  I always try to get a second
> opinion and sometimes those did not agree with Steve's.  Steve's opinion
> was the correct one in the end.  Steve also has about the lowest prices
on
> parts as anyone can find.  We replaced a lot of parts and his parts
sources
> are on reason why the cost was as reasonable as it was.
> 
> Now for the particulars of the swap if anyone is interested.
> 
> Following is a list of new parts that I had to pay for: Clutch Master,
> Trans Seal, Rear main seal, T.O. Bearing, Flex disc (guibo), Clutch
Slave,
> M6 press plate, Clutch Disc, Ctr Support Brng, Trans mts, Support, Cup
> Bottom??, gear joint, Cushion?, Shift lever, gear shift knob, selector
rod
> seal, Pilot Bearing, Machine flywheel.
> 
> The above parts were purchased new and installed by Steve.  Some of the
> parts came with the Tranny which was purchased used but were replaced to
> avoid problems in the near future.
> 
> The Tranny, Drive shaft, and other parts were purchased used through one
of
> Steve's contacts.  There were some other parts that I ended up with new
due
> to the supplier of the Tranny sending bad parts and he and Steve worked
out
> a deal.
> 
> The car was at Steve's for about 5 weeks.  This was due to collecting all
> the right parts and waiting for the right parts when the wrong parts were
> sent.  I was very anxious to get the car back but Steve kept me at bay
and
> said I would not regret the wait.  He was right.
> 
> The only problem is that of the shift lever boot.  It does not cover the
> whole hole where the shift lever comes through the consol.  I can't
believe
> that BMW uses different consols for manual and auto but this may be the
> case.  I am hopeful that I have the wrong shift lever boot.  Maybe on
from
> a 5 series.  Anyone out there that has a '83 or newer 6 with a 5speed
would
> you please measure the length of the opening for the shift lever.  Remove
> the boot and measure from the front of the car to the rear of the car.
> Mine is about 5 5/8".  I hope your is the same.  If yours is smaller does
> anyone have any ideas for making my shift lever boot about 1/2" longer?
> 
> One more question.  Never driving a 6 with a 5speed (except M6 once) the
> tranny seems kinda notchy when I am hard on the acceleration.  I have
heard
> complaints of this before so I think it is normal.  It shifts fine all
> other times.  I may not be matching revs very good yet.
> 
> Let me know if anyone has any questions.  I will be posting some other
> questions not related to the swap later.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Michael
> '85 635 CSi Euro 5 SPEED
> 
> P.S. I am not affiliated with Steve Haygood except as a satisfied
customer.

ANOTHER PERSON? WROTE:

I have converted a 325is from automatic to manual.  It was very
straightforward, requiring a trans, shifter, trans mount, driveshaft
flywheel, clutch assembly, pedal box and clutch hydraulics from a manual
shift car. Holes for clutch hydraulics already exist in the firewall.
The manual trans does not need the cooler lines, so these may be removed
from the car.  A jumper needed to be placed in the connector to the
automatic shifter to disable the park/neutral switch wiring.  The 635
uses the big six tranny used in E28 533/535 and E24 cars.  See metric
mechanics web page for tranny interchange.  I doubt that this swap would
be cheaper than getting the automatic working.  Get an ETM for your car
in order to figure out the electrical connections--you'll need it to get
the manual working anyway.

STEVE WROTE:

From: "steve haygood" <shaygood@domain.elided>

REPLACE:
flywheel
trans (of course)
driveshaft
pedal assembly
brake master reservoir
add reverse light sw wiring(easy)
disconnect neutral safety sw 
no engine wiring changes
Wish you were closer,this is a fun one) 
Steve(6 Series Register)

RON WROTE:

From: "Ron Dwyer" <dascoupe@domain.elided>
   
I've been involved in this type of swap recently on a few of my cars. 
You
have a motronic motor that needs senbsors stuck in the bellhousing.  The
correct trans for the car is any late model 86+ E-28 5-speed.  Speedo
sender is on the rear end.  You'll need a motronic flywheel, clutch, t/o
bearing, arm, master & slave syls, plumbing, pedal assemblies from or
6er,
e-28 might work.

All parts can be had for about $1500 to $2K.  Install time...24 hours if
you're really good.

MICHAEL WROTE:

From: Michael Osborne <mwosborne@domain.elided>
    
Steve Haygood <shaygood@domain.elided> did the swap for me and cost about
$2200 including parts and labor.  I would budget $2500 to be safe.  You
need the following:

drive shaft (used)
tranny (used)
pedal assembly (used)
slave cylinder (new)
shift linkage (used/new)
fly wheel (reground)
clutch disk (new M6)
master cylinder (new)
pilot bearing (new)
pressure plate (new)
t/o bearing (new)
tranny mounts (new)
shift lever boot (used)

I indicated which parts I bought new and which used.  Based on Steve's
suggestion I made sure we had all new hydraulics.  the car should
already
have all the mountings and holes in the fire wall for the swap so no
cutting is needed.  My car had the electronic tranny as well.  One
person
indicated that the brain for the engine would not work right if the
brain
for the tranny was getting no signals from the tranny.  This was not the
case with my car.  My car is a euro car and is a mixture of parts left
over
between the '84 and '85 model year swap.  The person indicated that on
electronic tranny cars that the throttle body had a big control unit on
the
side that had four control wires instead of five like the other cars. 
My
throttle body was like all the others and is about 3" X 3" with one side
in
a half circle (I think).

I would make sure that you have a good honest mechanic that is very
familiar with BMW's and E28/E24 for sure.  This is not a job for the
typical fix any make/model/year car.

Let me know what else you may need. You can call in the evening if you
like (843) 886 3933.

Michael - '85 635CSi Euro (love every minute with the 5-speed)


GEORGE WROTE:  

FROM:  Georg.Taht@domain.elided

Here is what you will need:

1.  5 - Speed transmission from 1986 and on.  Getrag 260/6 (It is
recognizable by the cooling fins on the bottom of the transmission.
Earlier cars had Getrag 265's or 260/5 transmissions.
2.  Driveshaft for your car.  The automatic one is different.  I bought
a rebuilt one and have had no problems with vibration.
3. Pedal Assembly from a car that has a manual transmission
4. Clutch Hydraulic Parts.  Master, Slave, tubing, flex hose (this part
is about $50)
5. Throttle position switch
6. Shift assembly, including mounting, rod, shift lever, boot, etc.
7. Flywheel, pressure plate, clutch, throwout bearing
8. Exhaust hangar assembly that is supported from transmission
9. Various nuts and bolts for the driveshaft and transmission
10. Rubber disc (between transmission and driveshaft)
11. Transmission support cross member

This represents the major parts, the rest was little hardware pieces.

You will need to do some wiring:
The new throttle position switch need to wired to the Motronic unit.
Wire in the back-up light switch
Install cruise control switch for clutch - The wiring harness connector
was already installed in my car.
Jumper the relay for the starter lock-out.
Note: I had a BMW ETM Wiring manual to help me out.  (Very useful)

Cap off the cooling lines to the radiator for the automatic transmission
fluid.

My total cost for the conversion was about $2400 (all parts were used
except for the clutch hydraulic parts, clutch disc, pressure plate,
throwout bearing, driveshaft, rubber disc)

Labor to do the job was about 80 man-hours

Purchase a BMW clutch alignment tool.  It is worth the money!

The majority of the job is quite straight forward.  I spent a lot of
time getting little things configured.

Georg Taht
georg.i.taht@domain.elided
1987 535is



GLENN WROTE:

From: Glenn Lucas <doclucas@domain.elided>
    
Converted my 7 to a 5-speed 2 years ago.  Took a new driveshaft....which
one depends upon which tranny you use (260 or 265 Getrag).  Of course
pedals and a new wood console plate.  Got a lot of used parts from Jim
Dowd, a Roundel advertiser.  Found him to be easy to deal with and
extremely honest.
Bought the transmission from Metric Mechanic, their sport/OD.  Have been
extremely happy with the conversion.  In their catalog they list all the
parts needed for the job.
They also were very helpful.
Good luck with your project!
Glenn Lucas

BRIAN WROTE:

From: BRIAN A AUSTIN <BE13@domain.elided>

I have done the conversion! It really is pretty simple. Every thing is
> pretty much bolt in and I will try to give you a complete list of parts.
I
> happen to be a wrecking yard fanatic because it saves me allot of money
and
> I used mostly recycled parts but you always run the risk of crapped out
> parts. Anyways here is the list. 
> 
> 1. 5-speed transmission
> 2. Fly-wheel with new stretch bolts(long style)
> 3. Pedal assembly
> 4. Clutch master cylinder
> 5. Clutch slave cylinder(you also need the brake line that runs from the
> clutch master cylinder to the slave cylinder. Also you need the hose that
> runs from the brake fluid resevior to the clutch master cylinder.)
> 6. Pressure Plate
> 7. Clutch disk
> 8. Throw out bearing
> 9. Pilot bearing(6-9 can be purchased as a kit from Bavarian autosport
for
> around $200 I think. # is 1-800-535-2002)
> 10. Shifter assembly(there are to styles, sheet metal and aluminum dog
> bone. I would go with the aluminum style, it is less complicated. I am
> going to try and send a schematic of the shifter assembly tomorrow.)
> 11.Drive shaft( I recommend getting a used drive shaft for a 5-speed in
> good condition.)
> I think that's it. Its nice if you can find a wrecked 635 that hasn't
been
> stripped down because all the little pieces that you need are there. You
> will also need misc. nuts, bolts, and screws. I usually get those at the
> dealer brand new because they're pretty cheap. I don't know if you are a
> 6-series fanatic but if you are I just put a 745i turbo engine into my
635
> and it came out great. I have got to put a lower geared final drive in
it(I
> was thinking 2:93) because boost comes on at 3000 rpm and in a couple of
> seconds you are at redline. I think the car would be more driveable with
> longer boost duration. If you ever consider that I've got all the info.
> 
> Anyways I hope this helps. It might seem like allot but it really isn't.
If
> you have any questions let me know.
> 
> Brian         BE13@domain.elided  
> 

BRIAN WROTE LATER:

From: 
        "BRIAN A AUSTIN" <BE13@domain.elided>
   
Bill,

The manual transmission does not tie into the DME at all. The only
wiring
to the 5-speed is two wires for the back-up lights. All you have to do
is
tie the back up wires from the 5-speed into the back-up wires at the
automatic transmission selector switch which is a nine-pin switch
located
under the the shifter. Also you need to connect the park wire to its
ground
so the car will always think it is in park so you can start it. As soon
as
I can get my scanner working, I will send you schematics. I use the
Bentley
BMW 5-series manual because the 5 and 6-series are so closely related.
Don't worry about the electric tranny computer. It should pose no
problem.
You do need to check your throttle switch and tell me if it is the big
circular one with a rubber boot covering it! I hope I'm not confusing
you
with anything. If I am let me know and I will try to clarify it. 

Brian           BE13@domain.elided



AND THAT'S ALL SHE WROTE! GOOD LUCK AND HAPPY
SPEEDING>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (;-D)

bill@domain.elided

1986 635 CSi US model - and a damb fine car even if no M class or Euro

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