I will not respond to Tim's post as I would like to. I have much
more to say in response. Certainly,however, it would provoke further
heated exchanges.
I will express a few thoughts only and hope that we will soon drop
the topic or I must return. My personal rule is : if you choose to
entice me with off topic remarks of a political/social/religious
nature, be prepared to accept a response that you may not like.
* A fear of Big Brother is indeed warranted especially after the
free pass many of our government reps believe they have a right to
after 9/11. ("Everything is different now.") Anyone sincerely
worried about the repression of Big Brother should first join the
ACLU and then become an active freedom fighter. In desperation even
hard core ACLU hating citizen have called on them for help in
protecting their constitutional rights.
* I am a passionate supporter of the constitution, most especially
the first amendment. The notion that one cannot express religious
views because it is not politically correct is obvious right wing
propaganda. On the contrary, any attempt to keep government and
religion separate is considered politically incorrect. Our president
and his followers, including Lieberman, perpetually bring religion
into their communications and insist on the nonsense that humans
cannot behave themselves without some supposed diatific rule book. (
not agreed on by any two believers).
George Bush senior stated loudly and clearly to the entire world that
nontheists were not real Americans. Thirty to forty millions of
citizens at least were swiftly written off.
Despite 30-40- million nonbelievers in this country, religious
expressions exist even on our money ( an obscenity to connect God to
such a materialist symbol - pure capitalist propaganda; believers
should be horrified at this sacrilege) and in our pledge - not
prayer? - of allegiance. Our constitution QUITE DELIBERATELY makes
no mention whatever to a god or gods. Want a theocracy ?; move to
the middle east.
( I find it so ironic that I and my many nontheist friends and
acquaintances are more offended by what we consider sacrilege than
are believers. That prayers should be offered and God called upon to
take sides for the success of a military action or little league
game - and so much more - is sacrilege writ huge. How astoundingly
presumptuous! I am embarrassed by you. )
With my tax money and despite my deep passionate embrace of the
constitution, a representative of religion is paid a huge amount of
money to lead prayer before government sessions. The government is
at every turn attempting to have me, a lover of the first amendment,
pay for religious instruction or influence. (Vouchers, e.g., are
obviously a poorly disguised attempt at government supported
religious indoctrination. A nontheist would find it impossible to be
elected to high office because of the enormous ignorance and bigotry
in this society.)
Consider that people like Lott and Ashcroft behave according to their
personal religious beliefs; that's why the latter was assigned to his
office.
To suggest that a support of the first amendment is only an insincere
concern and a form of political correctness is about as absurd,
self-serving, and bloody dead wrong as one can imagine. I am so
very sick and tired of the Right Wing invented idea of "political
correctness" being misused and abused by the very people who
introduced it into our consciousness and conversation. CLEARLY,
many religionists in this country have as their goal the
establishment of a theocracy. It's happening. Be afraid. Jerry
Falwel is only one example....... only one. These attempted
intrusions into our freedom of religion is everywhere - including our
national religion, football.
Please keep your person religious beliefs out of my face. I will
fight relentlessly to support our right to religious expression or
nonexpression; I have in fact done this all my life. However, you
have no right to intrude on my personal theocratic beliefs even if
this basic freedom from religion is contradicted thousands of times a
day in this country and in a thousand different ways.
I find it ironic that folks like me will become ferocious when
legitimate personal religious expression is interfered with while the
very people whose I rights I am willing to die for will not give me
(and 30-40 MILLION) similar protection and support. I said you
provoked me : THAT IS PURE SELFISH HYPOCRISY.
* I do not mind right wing opinion; I even agree with Bob Novak
some times; however, when I am asked to believe that the sun rises in
the west ........ forget about it.
* Don't tell me about addiction to nicotine. Until a few years
ago I was addicted from the age of 10. However, when your personal
vices or virtues intrude on my rights, all bets are off. When I sit
down to a fifty dollar gourmet meal and you light up at the table
next to me, you are unnecessarily intruding negatively into my well
being. Sit next to me at a baseball game? .... same thing. You
will have immediately provoked a headache and other physical
reactions not conducive to eating a fine meal and a wish to socialize
with friends. TAKE YOUR SELFISH EGOISM AND ADDICTION OUTSIDE!
* As with smoking, we have for the sake of personal freedoms long
sanctioned such things as smoking in public and many many other
behaviors. ( Consider the hot rod snow mobilers and water jet bozos
who destroy the little peace and quiet we have left and yet are
allowed to do it to the detriment of a great many less selfish
individuals. ) That people are finally wising up for the sake of
their health is no attack on your freedoms.
* So, shall we bash it around on line? - BOTH positions? I just
need to know the rules, but you can't have it both ways. Pronounce
something ill thought out, threatening to my freedom, and
politically/socially/religiously self serving and threatening to me
and I will respond.
* Finally, Mr. Catholic Lay Minister Big-Guy, that you first
define a fight for your rights in terms of brawn, blood, and ammo is
a perfect metaphor for the primitiveness of the Conservatives'
solutions to problems. (Surely I need not offer examples as it
relates to our religious/big balls government) This is, I suppose,
what Jesus what do, hmmm? Not to mention Mohammed. Praise the Lord
and pass the ammunition? How sick. This is the stuff of suicide
bombers.)
May I respectfully suggest that the Roman Catholic Church has a one
hell of a lot more to be concerned about beyond issues of smoking in
public. I say that in part as a result of years and years of
Catholic "education."
David
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 09:24:13 EST
From: Fltrplntman@domain.elided
Subject: Big brother is watching!! Can you say "OnStar?" (WTFOB)
<<Jim Whitty, administrator of Oregon's Road User Fee Task Force, in an
exclusive interview with CNSNews.com , called the GPS mileage tracking tax
proposal necessary because "it costs a certain amount to drive on the road
per vehicle and people ought to pay their fair share of their usage." >>
Uhh, I thought that fuel taxes were used for that?
<<The idea of raising the existing gasoline tax was also turned down because
with automobiles becoming so fuel efficient, gas tax revenues are projected
to dry up.>>
Oh, like thats bloody likely. I haven't seen a car that damn efficient!
Here's a little more proof that we will soon be adding another letter to our
country's monicker. U.S.S.A (sound familiar?) All these years, we have
been fighting communism, now we are falling into its grasp.
For example, Does anyone on this group smoke? If you do, you'll know what
I'm talking about. Slowly but surely, our rights as a free country are being
taken from us. We, as a country, are hell bent on Democracy in other
countries. But he can't even hold on to it here.
Think about it. The first thing that Communism gets rid of is the freedom of
religion. Thats been obvious lately, that you can't express any religious
beliefs because its not "Politically Correct".
Personally, Ladies and Gentleman, its time for a Revolution. Pretty soon,
we'll have to get rid of our pride and joys to be forced to drive the
Government approved mode of transportation. ( Anyone up for a 2005 Trebant?)
I'm sorry for venting, but this stuff really gets under my skin. I'm a
Layminister at our local Catholic Parish. I'm also 5' 10" and 260 lbs, 50 "
chest and 20" biceps. Willing to fight to the death for what I believe in. As
should we all.
So stock up the ammo, and keep the hardware well oiled. We may need it in
the future. I pray to God we won't.
Tim Timko
88 Alfa Romeo Milano Platinum
82 Lancia Zagato
72 BMW Bavaria
84 Mercedes Benz 190e (338,000 miles)
97 Jeep Cherokee Sport
97 Honda Civic EX coupe <<<<<<
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