Re: 164S maintance vs. Milano maintance

[Mcmahonmik@domain.elided]

Hi Alan,  

Since I seem to be well suited to engendering heated responses from 
conspicuously over-defensive 164 owners (AND since I didn't see any responses 
to your question so far), I'll give you my input, even though I've never 
owned a Milano.... But I CAN compare 164 issues to Spider issues.

<Side issue/disclaimer:  is it possible that there are subsets of Alfa-type 
poeple, such as a) Spider-type people and b) "unique-looking" sedan people ?  
If so, perhaps I'm biased against funny looking things with 4 doors and 
didn't realize it before I bought one.>


> 
> Now that I got all these great responses as to where to look for a 164S, 
> I've got a few questions:
> 
> How does the 164 maintance (frequency and difficulties) compare to a 
> Milano?

164 is orders of magnitude more complex than pre-FIAT Alfas.  This directly 
correlates with maintenance difficulty (or expense).

> 
> Are parts more expensive than the Milano?
> 
> Any hard to find parts for the 164?

A glance at IAP, Vick, or AR Ricambi Price lists will show almost every part 
on a 164 costs more than for any other Alfa.

Parts availability seems reasonable, given the numbers sold.  (Although 
bumper covers I think are scarce.)

> 
> Besides the Stepper motor are there anything else known to go wrong with 
> the 164's, especially the S


See details in /alfa/FAQ/164/


> 
> Does the motor sound as great as the Verde?
> 
> Is the car just as fast as a Verde?  Same tall gears?

My 24v sounds GREAT, but isn't so sprightly off the line with the auto 
tranny.  Quite a boost, though,  when it kicks down a gear at 50 mph and 
rockets off into ticket-territory.  I would guess higher top speed than a 
Verde, but I don't plan on finding out what that speed is for my car...


> 
> Anything, anyboby doesn't like on the 164's? Besides FWD


FANTASTIC commuter / long distance cruiser barge that can still be 
entertaining in the twisties.
Still, the top doesn't come off (well, it actually just won't go back on 
properly) and a drive that would be a blast in 105/115 series car might be a 
yawner at the same speed in the 164.  No one claims higher limits / more 
modern is the same as more enjoyable.  

Summary: too many gadgets, not enough fun.

Oh yeah - then there's the "disturbingly frequent, frustratingly 
unpredictable and surprisingly difficult / expensive" repair issues.  Look 
out for stepper motors, cam belts & tensioners (good luck getting a consensus 
on what to do with the tensioners aside from cursing the designer), cigarette 
seals, valve cover gasket (front right corner of car), heater core, Climate 
Control display, tire wear, brake wear, clutch wear (or auto transmission 
lifetime if not an S), special magic "S" shock pricing / availability, seat 
heaters, exhaust rust / expense, A pillar trim, alignment difficulty, 
radiator fan control resistor, seat motors / switches, power antenna, power 
steering rack, and some I can't place right now.  

Surely any approx. 10 year old car has a similar list (including the Milano, 
or any of the 164's original competitors).  These other options will be 
similarly expensive to maintain.

Good luck with your decision, and with getting direct comparison info.
-m
86 graduate
94 164 LS
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