RE: Alfa Pleasure, Alfa Pain...

["Peter Webb" <webb.p@domain.elided>]

Jon,

A few of less ominous things to check for oil consumption that high:

1) The cam seals.  They are the half-moon thingies at the back of the cam
cover.
2) Leaking oil pressure sensor.  They are notorious for leaks.
3) Oil filter ring.  Did the last person to change it leave the old ring on?
   Would explain why the PO didn't notice previous oil usage.
4) Spica pumps are notorious for leaking oil when badly maintained.

Compression seems good.  The usual procedure is to do a dry test, then wet
the cylinders and do another and look at the compression change.  You don't
have any really low cylinders to warrant that amount of oil consumption.

I would suspect an external leak before an internal one based on your
description.

-Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-alfa@domain.elided [mailto:owner-alfa@domain.elided]On Behalf Of
Jon Pike
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 05:41
To: alfa-digest@domain.elided
Subject: Alfa Pleasure, Alfa Pain...


Well...

After a fair amount of searching,  we found a car with a pretty low rust
body,  apparently no major
bondo restructuring,  only one small dent.. (77 Spider, btw)  and just
before the Convention..

We had given up on having an Alfa to go to the convention in,  and
suddenly,  here was our chance!
Engine sounded good.. wasn't dripping oil,  we were assured it wasn't
burning it.. and they didn't have to add any all that often.  A short
test drive that early evening,  and it seemed in pretty good shape.
 Marcia was thrilled, and we decided to go for it, before someone else
got to it.  I wanted to get a mechanic's opinion,  but all that I asked
couldn't do it till next week.. everyone wanted theirs fixed before the
Convention, as well as people leaving for vacation..

So we bring down some cash,  and sign the papers... a question was the
smog.  We were assured it had had no problems when they bought it,  the
PO had it done the same day,  6mo ago.  On that,  and the seeming
sincerity of the nice couple,  we said we would take care of getting it
smogged.

I drove her home,  with Marcia following..  Ah, after +15yrs,  an Alfa
again!!  Glorious it was, driving a Spider down a freeway at the end of
a warm LA day...  remembering why I love these cars as much as I do.

My joy was somewhat clouded when the oil pressure gauge began to dance a
bit..  After a few minutes,  I thought I'd better check it out...  3
quarts later I had oil above the min mark.  Yes,  I hardly believe it
myself, but I somehow managed not to look earlier...  I also had been
noticing smoke while driving to the freeway..  I hadn't noticed any
before...

I stopped at the restraunt that Marcia and I were to meet at,  about 10
miles down the road..  called the owner, he was surprised at the low oil
and smoke..  said it didnt burn oil.. only a quart every month and a
half or so..

At any rate..  making the story shorter..  about 50-60 miles home,  and
the oil is noticiably lower than it was.. drove it around some more and
found at the 100 mile mark,  it had drank a full quart of 20/50w.

Needless to say...  I'm upset.  Both that I am hard pressed to believe
the PO's managed to not know about the serious oil consumption..  and
that I didn't check SEVERAL things that I KNOW I should have checked,
ahead of time,  just because we got excited.

The rest of the weekend was great..  the Convention was a blast.. met a
lot of nice people,  even a few Digestians.  Went out on a Road Rally,
 (added some more oil) got rather sunburned,  and dosed it again at the
Concours the next day..

Anyway..  after talking to a lot of folks,  and listening to the tech
session..  I have some ideas where the car might be at,  and maybe what
to do.

I've had varying opinions on the oil burning.  I tend to think it might
be mostly valve guides,  since what I'm seeing is after a long deaccel,
 then going back on throttle, there's a large amount of smoke.   Perhaps
some smaller amount under continious hard acceleration,  though I'm not
sure.  Plugs 1, 2 are fairly normal looking,  3 is rather wet and black,
 4 less so, but still damp.  I get a dry (unless there is so much oil
the wet cylinders are really wet) compression test readings of 150 155
140 148.  This makes me feel a little better.. in that perhaps the rings
aren't where a lot of the oil is going..  but can I make this
conclusion?  I've been told that "valve guides can't cause that much oil
consumption,  it's gotta be the bottom end"..  but wonder about that.
 Valve clearances are all about .001-.002" closer than they should be..

The car starts pretty easily,  but this is 75-85 degree So CA weather.
 The thermostatic actuator has a nice white crusty substance growing out
of the seam where the capillary enters the plunger end...  I assume it's
leaked and is shot, and the car has been adjusted to live without it.
 This alone I am told will prevent any chance of passing smog..

What are the chances of the cat working at this advanced age? ('77)
 I've been told that it should "burn" all that oil smoke,  and if you
see it it's dead.  Or,  you can oil the heck out of them, and they could
still work.  I have no clue.  The car has something over 116K,  (if not
216K..  and in the records, I discovered in '98 it had a broken speedo
cable replaced after ??? time)

Rounding things off, there is somewhat more rust than I noticed at
first, (still below average of the ones I've seen lately)  there are
many suspicious sounds in the engine/transmission,  and it looks like
there might have been a few uses of the front and rear bumper, and sump
guard, that may have had some effect on the body.   Interior, top and
accessories are pretty good..  Lots of creaks and groans in the
suspension,  a touch of torque steer..

Did I say I was kicking myself?

My plans are,  get the car to a pre-smog test, to see how impossible
things might be,  get an Alfa mechanic's overall evaluation (like one
should ALWAYS do BEFORE any money changes hands)  talk to the PO about
what they want to do.  In CA,  the PO is supposed to be responsible for
the smog check,  my saying I'd do it instead dosen't waive my right to
have them supply it in smoggable shape.  I would have to go to civil
court to break the sale,  if it came to a fight.  (other thing to ALWAYS
do, have them take it to the smog test!)

Anyway..  a lot will wait on the evaluation,  and the deeper questions
getting answered. I would probably do a lot of my own work.. Pulling off
the head and getting it overhauled is one thing.. going thru the whole
engine is another.  There is a lot of work to be done, besides the
drivetrain,  I thought it was worth the middle to high range price
because of a nearly rust clean body, newer interior and top,  and an
engine in pretty good shape. Now, looking at doubling that price of the
car by doing a full engine rebuild,  and then starting on all the other
things..

I'm beginning to get the impression the PO's drove it to the grocery
store, once every three days.. and 50 mi a month was their average, to
make their claim of "adding oil only every 6-8 weeks".  As well as not
noticing the oil had gotten down to the danger level..  Though that
would imply they never added any over their six month ownership...

Apologies for the venting...  inbetween the blissful moments I've been
not a happy camper.  But, it's time to learn the lessons, handle the
situation, and get on with life.

 I'd appriciate any suggestions or opinions, or further evaluations and
tests to make..  to figure out what's going on here.

Jon and Marcia - finally found the Other Woman, and she's a real Bi*ch..

77 Spider (smokes and drinks to excess, other bad habits)
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