Re: alfa-digest V7 #370

[Jay Mackro <jmackro@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

At 03:20 AM 1/7/99 -0500, Marc Mosko wrote a reply to
WDX063@domain.elided's inquiry about buying a rough '58 Giulietta.
Portions of Marc's message are summarized below.  While
I agree 100% with Marc's facts, I would debate some of the
conclusions he draws from them.

>When you're dealing with a 40 + year old car the expense factor
>can become a bottomless pit. Forget about the purchase price. Whether 
>you pay $500 or $5000 has little bearing on the final outcome....

Actually, this is a very good point.  People buying cars to restore
worry about negotiating a $2,500 asking price down to $2,250, when
they're going to be investing another $10,000 in the project.  As
I recall, WDX063@domain.elided was proposing to buy the Giulietta from
his cousin - the major determinant of a appropriate purchase price
should probably be just keeping peace within the family.

>1) Rockers (composed of eight different pieces)... is there any rust at all?

Again, I agree.  When selecting a car for a restoration project, rust
should be avoided like the plague.  In fact, rust IS a plague!

>Body work (labor alone) on my car will  be $8000. Add re-chroming and 
>replacement of cosmetic parts.. another $4000.

AH, here's my key point:  While Marc may be spending $8,000 on body
work to complete what I'm sure will be a fabulous restoration, you
don't NEED to spend that much.  Ditto for re-chroming.  I would much
rather see a faded-paint, missing eyebrow, but mechanicaly sound
Giulietta at a club event, than to hear that another one went to the
crusher, because it was too expensive to restore. 
>
>2) Engine... take it someone who understands Alfa's to check it out. An engine
>overhaul is $3000  if nothing major is found. If you start replacing pistons
>and liners the bill could reach $5000. 

Now, while I will concede that it costs more to overhaul a 4 cyl Alfa
engine, than it does to re-do a V8 Chevy, I think Marc's figures are a 
bit high.  $2,000 more to replace pistons + liners??? I don't think so.  
Like many of the costs Marc cites, paying a premium shop to do all of the 
work can run into big numbers.  But, I have rebuilt several Alfa engines, 
farming out the machine work, buying all of the parts, but doing the
disassembly/reassembly myself, and have typicly spent $1,500 to $2,000.  
And, yes, they're still running.

>3) If you're planning on a serious restoration of the car I suggest you find
>an original 1300 engine coupled to a 4-speed tranny. They're available. You'll

Sure, to make it 100% original, he SHOULD find an appropriate engine and
transmission.  He should also find the an original took kit, re-do the 
carpets in wilton wool, and maybe track down the original owner's
manual.  HOWEVER, if he just wants to have some fun with the car, why
not just leave the later engine and gearbox alone, install polyester
carpets, and DRIVE the sucker!

>What I don't understand is how a 1600 cc engine fit into this car without
>changing the hood as well. 

Yea, I was puzzled by that too.  I have this image of a non-running
Giulietta, with no hood installed, in his cousin's garage, with boxes
of parts piled on it.  Like, maybe nobody has ever checked whether the
original hood still fits!

>4) If you pockets are deep enough to do a complete restoration including
>mechanical rebuild of all systems you had better figure on spending over
>$30,000 of which half will be parts.

Sure, this is true.  If you want to win concourses, plan on $30,000.
Buy a trailer and tow vehicle too (another $30,000), and get yourself
a classy girlfriend (now we're talking real dollars!) to distract the
judges.  But, is all this necessary to have an "Alfa experience"?

>I think you'd be better off finding a good well restored Guilietta. 
>They're out there for $15,000 to $20,000. Buying a beater can be an 
>endless outpouring of money and little driving pleasure.

True, and true.  BUT, buying a finished car would deny WDX063@domain.elided
the opportunity to work on his car.  For me, that's what owning old
Alfas is all about.  Buying an already restored car would be like
hiring a golf pro to play a round of golf for you - sure, he could 
turn in a lower score, but is that the real point?  I think that as
long as his cousin's car isn't rusted/wrecked/missing major parts,
and as long as he understands that he is going to have to spend
SOME money, WDX063@domain.elided should proceed.

Jay Mackro

'64 Giulietta that I got for free, and then spent way too much
money restoring.  But, I had fun doing it.

------------------------------