weights

[JHertzman@xxxxxxx]

In AD7-241 Bob Brady and Dana Loomis replied to my car-weights posting in
reply to Bob's earlier question.

Meanwhile I got to the stacks in Biblioteca Shade-tree to look up weights in
factory brochures for any added information and/or contradictions.

A point of curiosity is that I have both coupe and Berlina brochures for the
1750 which were European brochures with a USA differences section stapled into
the back. The differences mentioned were the Spica injection instead of
Webers, dual-booster split braking system instead of single, and seat belts,
front and rear on the Berlina and front only on the coupe. For the Berlina the
main European brochure gave 2446# curb weight, while the USA deviations
staple-in gave 2442#. For the coupe, 2293# Europe, 2292# USA. I find that hard
to believe, but those are the numbers on the paper.

Bob Brady says "It's hard to understand why the 1750 cars (both Spider and
GTV) weighed more than the 2000's. Sure is. In some of the later cars the
French and German brochures said that the weight in running order was to DIN
standards. Light bulbs flashed. I remembered how, once in the hallowed days of
the horsepower race, Pontiac allegedly gained four horsepower over the
previous year by changing the ambient air temperature on their dyno-room test
standard. In USA owners' handbooks the Spiders, Coupes and Berlinas all have
the same weights in the 1971 1750, 1972 2000, and 1973 2000 versions. I would
assume that that is correct, that there would be very little difference
between the 1750 and 2000, and whatever there was would have the 2000 slightly
heavier. It is within the realm of possibility that the 1750 and later numbers
are to a different standard, perhaps DIN, than earlier and perhaps more
haphazard factory numbers.

Bob also says " It's also remarkable that the Spiders and GTVs weigh EXACTLY
the same". The exactitude may be remarkable, but not the weight of the
Spiders. Their driveshaft and interwheelbase floor pan are 100 mm shorter, but
the Spiders are 2" wider and 4.3" longer (squaretail) than the coupes, and the
coupe sections are all shortest-distance rather than the Spiders' convoluted
flutings. The coupe has more glass, but the Spider has a lot more steel, and
it is no surprise that it would be a wash, or close to it.

Bob cites Steve Schaeffer's car: "My '67 GTV weighed in at 2150 lbs with 1/2 
tank fuel and oil, but no spare tire, but with roll bar which weighs more 
than the spare would." That is 975-1/4 kg. Whoops, John error, I said 
"'66-'68 Giulia Sprint GT Veloce: 1020 kg dry (Fusi, d'A-T agrees)" when they
don't agree; Fusi says 1020 kg wet, d'Amico-Tabucchi says 1020 kg dry. USA
sales brochure I have says 2094# dry for the coupe, = 949.8 kg, 2064# dry for
the Spider = 936.22 kg. 1600 Spider owner's instruction manual says 940 kg
dry.
Fusi says'66-'67 Spider 1600: 990 kg wet, d'A-T gives the same figure dry. So
we read the numbers, believe the scales, and interpolate like hell. 

For the heavy-bumper cars versus their light-bumper equivalents the only clear
numbers I have are from sales brochures. Squaretail 2000 spider, light-bumper
version, 2292# curb; heavy bumper version 2548#, 256 pounds heavier. The same
number is given with and without ducktail, with either Spica or Bosch.
Probably about right, it is not just the bumpers, but also the shock mounts
and the changes in the supporting structure. Whether the earlier Spiders weigh
exactly the same as the coupes or not, I am confident that a heavy-bumper
Spider weighs appreciably more than any 105/115 coupe.

On the bumper weights, my USA Alfetta GT brochures give 2710#, the French
(light-bumper) Alfetta 2000 brochure gives 1080 kg, curb, DIN, which is 2,381#
which is 329 pounds less. Fusi gives numbers that don't parse: 1000 kg for the
1.6, 1050 for the 1.8, 1000 for the 2.0, all wet. D'A-T gives 1090 kg. Any way
you slice it, the US bumpers and their supports weigh.

Bob Brady also writes " I am certain that the doors in USA '73 and '74 (and
perhaps '72 as well) GTVs weigh considerably (> 10lbs) more than the earlier
ones.  Interior "enhancements," larger brakes, and SPICA most likely add
weight". I believe that the intrusion beams in the doors applied to the 1750
as well, and that the big changes should have been between the 1600 and the
1750. I won't swear to that, but owners' instruction books do give the same
weights for the 1750 as for the '73.

Dana discusses the question of the assumed differences between the Juniors and
the Seniors: "Like Bob, I have heard repeatedly that the GT Jr is on the order
of 300 lbs (136 kg) lighter than the 2000 GTV". I agree with Dana that this is
very unlikely. Where I have 1300, 1600, and 2000 versions of the same car in a
single brochure the maximum difference given is 50 kg, some of which would be
engine but much of which could be attributed, as Dana suggested, to more
spartan accouterments rather than to any differences in sheet metal.

To put that 136 kg into perspective, and perhaps call into question the value
of book numbers generally, I offer four from d'Amico-Tabucchi which are
outside the range Bob asked about.
Alfetta GTV 2000: 1090 kg, wet
GTV 6: 1210 kg, wet
Alfa 75 V6 2.5: 1090 kg wet (1986), 1190 kg wet (from 1987)

Enough numbers. 

Cordially, 

John H. 

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