Re: FrontAxleHubNutsQuestions

[jlandry@domain.elided (John A. Landry)]

In a brilliant stroke of genius, alice@domain.elided blurted out:

>Curt and all,
>Thanks for the info on front hub nuts and washers.  I took a closer 
>look last evening at my auto-lock hubs.  There is a large cage with 
>plastic inserts and retaining spring.  The plastic bits rub on the 
>outer hex nut and unscrew it.  Curt, you allude to the round outer 
>triple hex key nuts as being the auto-lock hub locking nut.  This 
>makes sense, as there is no rubbing with their use.  The double large 
>nut with washer in between appears to lock fine with manual hubs.  
>It appears I have two choices if I choose the manual hubs.  
>
>Need I bend the large washer or is there more than ample locking
>with this washer, since it is tabbed to stop rotation?

Mark,

The idea with the spindle nut arrangement is to completely prevent
loosening once installed.  As you may have already figured out, there are a
couple of different types of nut and washer combinations used to achieve
this.  The exact nuts and washers used by IH depended on the model year
*and* the type of locking hub used.

The two most common versions of the automatic locking hub sold by IH... the
Warn M178 "Lock-O-Matic" hub and the later Warn "Automatic" locking hub...
both use an inner hex type spindle nut, a special outer round spindle nut,
with the two being separated by a tabbed washer which has elongated
(slotted) holes punched throughout it's face.  An *outer* hex type spindle
nut is *never* supposed to be used with an automatic locking hub!  If
severe damage to the hub doesn't result, the nut will surely be loosened or
damaged.  The plastic inserts you saw in the cage inside the automatic
locking hubs are "friction shoes."   They act to hold parts of the hub
stationary in relation to the spindle and are a very important part for the
proper operation of the automatic locking hub.  I should also add that
there are two different sized round outer spindle nuts used, depending on
which model automatic locking hub is used.

As mentioned in previous posts, the round outer spindle nut has three allen
head set screws in its face.  Once the spindle nut is tightened, these set
screws are tightened.  When tightened, at least one of the set screws will
engage slotted holes in the tabbed washer underneath.  This completely
prevents the round spindle nut from loosening.

The other type of tabbed washer is the one you are familiar with... you bed
the sides around the inner and outer hex type spindle nuts to prevent
either from loosening.  If you want to get away from using these old
fashioned bendable washers, there's a simple modification you can perform
yourself.  Many other 4 x 4 vehicles use a similar arrangement, but they
use a tabbed washer with holes punched around the face... much like the
slotted washer used with the IH automatic locking hubs, only the holes are
round and not elongated as on the IH tabbed washer.  On these other 4 x 4
vehicles, the inner spindle nut will have one or more small pins protruding
from its face.  In this case, once the inner spindle nut is properly
tightened, the tabbed washer with the punched holes is placed on the
spindle and the inner spindle nut adjusted so that the pin engages one of
the holes in the tabbed washer.  The pin is of such length that it doesn't
protrude beyond the washer so as not to interfere with the outer spindle
nut.  This coupling of the pin and washer effectively prevents the inner
spindle nut from being able to loosen under normal conditions.  The outer
spindle nut is then tightened *very* tightly and the resulting assembly is
very secure.

In order to get rid of that nasty bendable washer, I modified a set of
common hex type spindle nuts to use the punched tabbed washer.  Here's what
I did: Go to a good wrecking yard and buy a set of the punched tabbed
washers... make sure it fits your spindle size, as they vary!  If possible,
also buy one of the "other" 4 x 4 inner spindle nuts (from a Jeep maybe???)
to use as a drilling jig.  I was easily able to find one of these nuts that
fit my Scout spindle (I brought the spindle with me).  When I got home, I
used the "other" nut to drill a hole into my Scout's hex type nut.  Into
that hole I installed a home made pin made out of some drill rod.  As a
result, I created a setup just like that "other" 4 x 4, but using my old
hex nuts.

You may wonder why I didn't just switch to the spindle nuts from that
"other" 4 x 4?  That's because they are too thick and interfere with any IH
locking hub.  Apparently Scout spindles are a but shorter and require
thinner spindle nuts.

>Would using Loctite threadlocker (red or blue?) on the outer nut 
>eliminate me having to bend over the washer?  

I would avoid that sort of thing.  The forces and dangers involved of not
having the spindle nuts tightened properly are too great to start relaying
on Loctite.

>I feel I risk nicking my outer hub bearing and leaving bits of metal 
>debris when I smack the washer.

I hope my advice helps you some.

John L.
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