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+1/+2 update - Toyo Proxes T-1

Well I _finally_ made my decision, after careful thought and a little 
research, I decided on a plus-1 fitment on my '95 530i. First I want to 
say THANK YOU to all of you who gave me suggestions and opinions
on whether to go plus-1 or plus-2. All of your input was _extremely_ helpful.

For those of you interested in the reasoning for my choice read on, for those 
who are not, skip it.

I decided a plus-1 fitment was best for me primarily for the following 2
reasons: 

1) After reading a +1 vs +2 test performed on 540 conducted by Motor Trend 
   magazine in June 1995 (suggested reading by a fellow digester) I discovered 
   about 80% of the total gain in skid pad (.86g->.90g) and slalom performance 
   (62.6 secs->65.3 secs) was obtained by the +1 fitment.  Only an additional 
   20% increase in performance was gained by going from the +1 to the +2 
   (.90g->.91g and 65.3 secs -> 66.4 secs).  My opinion is that the tire 
   choice probably had as much or more to do with the better performance than 
   anything else. I also determined since there aren't too many choices 
   for Ultra high performance tires in 15" anymore, 16" opens up quite a 
   lot of possibilities AND 16" are less expensive than 17". Since the 
   additional gain in performance from the 17" was not important for me,
   16" seemed to yield the best bang for the buck and is probably the the 
   best compromise for me. In addition Motor Trend tested 16x7.5 and I was
   considering 16x8 so the 8" does allow for a wider tire if I so desire.
   I also had concerns about the 17" wheels bending. I've heard from my 
   local high performance wheel/tire shop, if you hit a pothole or steel 
   construction plate hard, you run the risk of bending a wheel. They get 
   about 2-3 customers per week who have bent a 17" rim. They couldn't say 
   what the condition of the person driving was at the time or if they were 
   horsing around, but in any event the risk wasn't worth it for me for a 
   little extra performance.  In addition since I do drive the car in 
   other parts of the country occasionally (like New York City) I felt the 
   risk of bending a wheel was too great for me. I am next going to install
   Eibach springs (not the sport version) which will reduce some of the 
   existing body roll and also reduce some of the front wheel well gap
   (cosmetic).

   Some details from Motor Trend Test:

   	stock=225/60-15 Pirelli P600 (High Performance)
   	+1   =225/55-16 Pirelli P700 (Ultra High Performance Category)
   	+2   =235/40-17 Pirelli Asimmetrico (Maximum Performance Category)

2) Since I absolutely wanted to stay with the classic look of my stock
   rims I had narrowed my choices to to 17"x8.5" BBS RS wheels ($800 ea.) 
   and 16"x8" BBS RZ ($300 ea). With rubber it was going to be about $2000.
   for the +1 and about $4000. for the +2. Again most bang for the buck 
   lead me towards the +1 fitment.


Another interesting piece to this story is that I wanted 235/45-16 tires
for my 16" rims. I had read a tire test in the Aug/Sept issue of Sports Car 
International magazine (I saw reference to this tire test on the bmw-digest)
and the Toyo Proxes T-1 beat out 9 other Ultra and Maximum Performance Tires 
including the Pirelli Pzero Asimmetrico.  Now I want to say I do not use 
these types of tests/comparisons as a bible rather as a starting point 
and general guide. In addition one of my neighbors has a Porshe 930 with
the T-1 Proxes and he swears by them in the dry and the rain. (He also has 
and has had numerous BMW's including at least one 2002 as well as numerous 
high end automobiles, both restored and newer, guess he's kind of a car nut).
He has driven in the rain in speeds lets say in excess of 100 mph and had 
absolutely no problem in the rain on the roads here in Atlanta with the Toyo
Proxes T-1. My local high performance tire center also says the Proxes T-1
are a pretty awesome tire, not to say its the best but right up there. So 
I figured I'd call Toyo and see of they had the 235/45-16 available. One 
thing led to another and I ended up talking with the local Toyo representative 
here in Atlanta. While the 235/45-16 is not available a 225/55-16 was. 
After agreeing to watch some promotional video tapes on how Toyo 
designs/tests/manufactures their tires (they used a 7-series in the video 
to do some of the testing of the T-1's) and after some further discussions 
with Toyo they wanted to know if I was interested in evaluating their tires.
Well how could I say no, free tires to evaluate with the only strings being 
a 2-3 month tire measurement and some photos of the tires on my car!
Sign me up! 

So I now have about 3000 miles on the tires and they are absolutely fantastic. 
I had them put on a couple days before I took a 2500 mile road trip to 
New England and I have to say, they handle way better than my Bridgestone 
Potenza RE-71's on my Firebird. I had a nice sunny day to drive up to New 
England. Unfortunately about 10 of the 15 hours of driving back was in the 
rain, so I have little wax left on the side of my car, oh well. I did hit 
torrential rain in thunderstorms/tornado watch in the last 1/2 hour of the 
trip as I arrived back in Atlanta. The tires were fantastic in the rain.  
No hydroplaning even in the super heavy rain. In the dry they are sticky as 
heck, I keep trying to break them loose on corners and turns, testing the
stickyness a little more each time. No tramlining and I hit some serious
truck ruts in NY and CT on 95. The only criticism I have so far is a periodic 
droning/harmonic low frequency sound at certain speeds which I cannot 
necessarily attribute to the tires. It's not very noticeable to others, 
it seems I'm the only one who can hear it. My husband cannot hear it and 
the mechanic at the  tire shop couldn't hear it either. They did hook up 
some "ears" which effectively is a device which allows you to listen the 
noise/vibration each wheel makes while running the car on a lift. Seems 
the left rear is a bit noisier than the right, possibly I broke a wheel 
bearing when I hit the construction plate in NYC (see Side-bar below). 
I will wait to see if any further noise develops.  Fortunately the sound 
does disappear after about 70 mph so it was a very quite trip. I will be 
talking to the guy at Toyo to see if we can figure out what the sound is 
and if it is tire related.

Side-bar: On the trip up I drove through NYC. While on the Deegan (87) they 
had shaved the road and had steel construction plates on the road creating a 
6" height difference in the pavement every 100" ft or so. Well I hit one of 
them hard and its possible I cracked a rear wheel bearing. Not sure but I
think this strange harmonic started after that so I cannot necessarily 
attribute the sound to the tires at this point.  It also seems this periodic 
harmonic/droning I hear is far worse on the roads outside the Atlanta area. 
Atlanta has some of the best roads in the country so I feel fortunate about 
that. Anyhow, if anything develops regarding the tires I will be sure to 
update anyone who is interested.

The reason I tell you all about the evaluation tires is that it seems to me
many BMW club members are sold on the Yokohama AVS-I tire, probably because
Yokohama and the Tire Rack sponsors the BMWCCA. I have heard the Yokohama 
tires are not too terrific in the rain but are very good in the dry. I've
heard total mileage one gets out of these tires isn't too terrific though. 
The pricing seems very similar for the Proxes T-1 vs the Yokohama AVS-I.
I'm not saying the Toyo Proxes T-1 are going to be better on the track and
performance will probably vary from one type of BMW to another but maybe 
some of you BMW club members who race might want to get in touch with your 
local Toyo Tire representative (call Toyo in CA and get a local phone 
number and name of someone to talk to, that's what I did) and talk to them 
about coming to club meetings or events, etc.  The guy at Toyo here in 
Atlanta I talked to claims Toyo is very interested in getting involved with 
the BMW car club.  Who knows, maybe the Toyo reps in your area have a budget 
for evaluating tires and you might be able to get a set to evaluate, on the
track or otherwise.

For those interested I averaged 72 mph (970 miles) on the trip up to New
England and got 22.5 mpg with the trunk packed, myself and my 90 lb dog.
For the trip back I averaged 69 mph and got 21.6 mpg with the trunk loaded,
my husband, myself and our 90 lb dog. Note most of the trip back was driven in
the rain and with an extra person as well as over 2 hours driving in rush hour
traffic which I did not hit on the trip up which may account for the mileage
drop on the return trip.

Please, before I get flamed or criticized I would like to add this disclaimer.
I am only expressing my OPINIONS and VIEWS. I am not a professional race car 
driver, nor am I a tire designer, tire engineer, tire tester, wheel tester,
wheel designer or automotive engineer. I have no affiliation with Toyo Tire,
nor BMW. I am not stating FACTS and should not be quoted on any of this 
information. This information should not be included in a HOW-TO thread on 
tires or wheels. Get it! I am only sharing some information with those of you 
who might be interested. It's a shame I have to even say any of this but I
do not want to get flamed. Thanks for your time. And thanks to all of you
you responded to my requests for advise.

Regards,

Kim Watters
E34/'95/530i/5-speed 35,000 miles, +1 Toyo Proxes T-1
BMWCCA