Re: [alfa] Starter support bracket for 1.1hp starters

[hagen_jason@xxxxxxxxxxx]

The 1.1HP starter is for the 131 teeth flywheels which ran from 1975 to 1990.  These starters should use the bracket to the motor mount to avoid the (though small) risk of cracking the bellhousing.

The .7 HP starter is intended for the 130 flywheel, 1972-1974.  They could also be put on a series 4 spider (1991-1994), but it is not likely you would want to do that!  The best solution for a 1972-1974 is to put the Series 4 starter on.  This starter is gear reduction and "cranks" so to speak.  It is expensive ~$300 from DiFatta.  I put this starter on my 1973 Spider...

--
Jason Hagen
Chicago, IL
'73 Spider
'95 164Q
> >I recall reading that the block, or perhaps motor mount, must be notched
> >out.  I obtained a 1.1 hp starter for use on my 72 Spider, but then got
> >worried about the issue of number of teeth in the gear, and never installed
> >it.  The starter, I believe, came from an Alfetta (not the race car that I
> >just learned about, but the later production car).  How does the issue of
> >drive gear teeth square with the issue of starter horsepower--are all
> >combinations possible?  Can one switch the drive gear to utilize the better
> >motor?  Can one install the motor without the bracket?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Bob Wilkinson
> >72 Spider in warm (at least today) Saint Louis  
> >
> 
> Thanks Bob..  So, I'm not crazy.. (not couning overall hobby )
> 
> I have had a few sources tell me it should go right on.. and was doing a 
> lot of head scratching.
> Yep, that's my exact assesment, without some extra inch long extension 
> piece, it warent gonna fit.  And, it wasn't going to that way, either, 

> since the starter is too long and you'ld have to avoid putting it on. (ahem)
> 
> Looks like you need to notch the motor mount bracket,  despite being 
> made with a too small to work notch,  the Spica mounting bracket under 
> it,  and a section of the block that sticks out to make the motor mount 
> attachment point. 
> 
> Were these ever a stock item?  I notice that my original 77 block has no 
> notch,  so it assumably never had a starter support, despite being built 
> with a 1.1hp starter.
> 
> On the starter gear issue,  opinions vary, but it would seem that there 
> is a slight difference in pinion gear diameter that corresponds with the 
> slight difference in ring gear diameter between the 130 and 131 tooth 
> versions.
> 
> Best I've gathered on this is the following:  (PLEASE take with grain of 
> salt / all corrections appriciated!)
> 
> 1. Around 75 (?) the change from 130 to 131 toothed ring gears happened 
> on the 2L motors.
> 
> 2. All the .7hp motors were for the 72-75 (?) 130 tooth gear,  all the 

> 1.1hp motors were for 131.
> 
> 3. A later (Type 4 Spider, late 80's to 90's?) starter, the "gear 
> reduction" type, is supposed to be a good fit for the 130 t gears, as 
> well as being a smaller, lighter and stronger device.
> 
> 4. Going with a 130 pinion (.7hp) on a 131 will probably bind and be a 
> problem.
> 
> 5. Going with a 131 pinion (1.1hp) on a 130 may work, but the looser fit 
> may cause premature wear or other problems. Some say there is no 
> problem, or not worth worrying about.
> 
> 6. Even Bosch tech help dosen't know, their books list the one 1.1hp 
> type part for all 2L years.
> 
> 7. Centerline lists two different pinion gear drives,  dosen't know much 
> about their diffferences and Bosch dosen't know much about their 
> different Bosch part numbers.
> 
> 8.  I corresponded with someone with a gear reduction starter,  he 
> measured his pinion gear,  it was about .010" larger than my 77 
> starter's gear.  The older starter I was given with the older motor was 

> also about .010" larger.  An unknown new pinion gear for some Alfa I got 
> was also .010" larger (Aha!)  Then I learned that the older starter is 
> also a 1.1hp type, and its pinion gear was identified as the one for a 
> 1.1 starter, and when I opened my 77 starter I found out the swap meet 
> pinion was different on the back end.. who knows what it's for... (Ah, 
> Bummer...)  Estimation of the size difference of the ring gears, barring 
> tooth angle difference and so forth seem to say it would be .040-.060" 
> difference in radius.. but then why dossn't the gear reduction pinion 
> have a greater difference?
> 
> So, it's hard to say.  I was really bugged by the fact that there is so 
> much confusion on this,  and thought I could research it out to a 
> definitive answer for all Alfisti.. but so far, no dice. 
> 
> I'll put on my 77 starter and see how it sounds while cranking.  Maybe 
> I'll get a gear reduction one later on..
> 
> Jon
> 77 Spider
> --

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