Re: [alfa] 164S idle and stumbling problem

[webb.p@xxxxxxxxxxx]

The CLT should read the following:

Bosch : Bosch Coolant Temperature Sensor 

Ohms  Deg C  
15500 -20 
5750 0 
4000 10 
2625 20 
1750 30 
1075 40 
800 50 
600 60 
445 70 
325 80 
245 90 
175 100 
100  120  

If it doesn't it's bad.   There are some other Bosch CLT versions that I've included in attachment (stripped from the digest, sorry).   

HTH

-Peter

> Hi all,
> Still trying to diagnose my 164S rough idle and
> stumbling problem. I'm hoping that someone might think
> of a solution. Here's the chronology:
> 
> - Brought car from NJ up to CO (2500 miles) with no
> problems. Drove it up to Pikes Peak (~13,000 ft
> elevation!) and down with no problems. Drove 150 miles
> to Denver and back at highway speeds, no problem.
> 
> - Next day, car cranked but did not start. 
> - Next day, car started but ran like a tank, whole car
> shook, felt like was running on 3 cylinders. Would not
> rev above 3500 because was so rough.
> - Had unpredictable strong fuel smells inside the
> cabin.
> - Following day, car started and drove around town,
> fine at high RPMs although rough at idle. When at
> idle, car stumbled and died, could not restart.
> - Car has been blowing black and white smoke out of
> exhaust, probably running rich.
> - Found that I could restart the car by pulling the
> fuel hose to fuel rail, draining fuel out of the rails
> (about 1 1/2 cup), turning engine to burn off excess

> fuel, then reconnecting hose and starting car.
> - Engine light comes on, Motronic gives error code for
> coolant temp sensor.
> 
> Troubleshooting:
> - Vacuum leak? Seems okay. checked three hoses to
> vacuum recirc canister, to valve cover, two hoses into
> boot b/w AFM and throttle body, hose to fuel pressure
> regulator.
> - Timing? Checked timing, was okay. Aligned crank at
> TDC, cams aligned to marks under valve covers.
> - Distributor? Distributor is visually sound.
> - Plugs? Plugs look okay.
> - AFM? AFM resistance measured smoothly as flap
> rotated smoothly.
> - Coolant Temp Sensor? Resistance read 2.5K Ohms,
> continuity of wiring harness checked and was okay.
> Cleared the motronic error code, but came back next
> time car started! (Why, if sensor is okay?)
> - Heads? No evidence of leaking from head gaskets.
> - Next step is to replace fuel pressure regulator
> (coming in the mail!) to ensure no excess fuel at
> rail. COULD cause rich mixture.
> - Haven't inspected fuel pressure (don't have fuel

> press guage), but when fuel hose was unplugged while
> turning over car, fuel was coming very strong and
> steady thru hose.
> 
> - Problem could be related to pressure difference
> after driving up to Pikes Peak and back down.
> 
> I've had lots of varying advice, but given all the
> evidence and troubleshooting, does ANYONE have any
> clue what else could be wrong? Thanks much!
> 
> Paul Niemczyk
> '91 164S 100k miles
> Colorado Springs
> 
> 
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Bosch : Bosch Intake Air Temperature Sensor - CIS 

Ohms  Deg C  
2230 -10 
1405 0 
910 10 
610 20 
415 30 
285  40  


Bosch : Bosch Coolant Temperature Sensor 

Ohms  Deg C  
15500 -20 
5750 0 
4000 10 
2625 20 
1750 30 
1075 40 
800 50 
600 60 
445 70 
325 80 
245 90 
175 100 
100  120  


Bosch : Bosch Intake Air Temperature Sensor 

Ohms  Deg C  
15500 -20 
5750 0 
4000 10 
2625 20 
1750 30 
1075 40 
800 50 
600 60 
445 70 
325 80 
245 90 
175 100 
100  120  


Bosch : Bosch Coolant Temperature Sensor NTC-M12/NTC-M12-H/NTC-M12-L 

Ohms  Deg C  
45313 -40 
26114 -30 
15462 -20 
9397 -10 
5896 0 
3792 10 
2500 20 
1707 30 
1175 40 
833.9 50 
595.5 60 
435.7 70 
322.5 80 
243.2 90 
186.6 100 
144.2 110 
112.7 120 
89.3 130 
71.2 140 
57.41 150 
46.88  160  


Bosch : Bosch Coolant Temperature Sensor NTC-M6/NTC-M8 

Ohms  Deg C  
83317.5 -10 
49254 0 
29959.5 10 
18732 20 
12012 30 
7893 40 
5356.5 50 
3651 60 
2544 70 
1804.5 80 
1305.5 90 
945 100 
703.5 110 
526.5 120 
400.5 130 
309 140 
240 150 
187.5  160  


Bosch : Bosch Coolant Temperature Sensor NTC-M6-F 

Ohms  Deg C  
66115 -20 
37645 -10 
22209 0 
13533 10 
8495 20 
5479 30 
3624 40 
2452 50 
1695 60 
1195 70 
858.2 80 
626.7 90 
464.8 100 
350.4 110 
267.1  120  


Bosch : Bosch Coolant Temperature Sensor PT-100-M14 

Ohm  Deg C  
100 0 
103.9 10 
107.79 20 
111.67 30 
115.54 40 
119.4 50 
123.24 60 
127.07 70 
130.89 80 
134.7 90 
138.5 100 
142.29 120 
146.06 130 
149.82 140 
153.58 150 
157.31 160 
161.04 170 
164.76 180 
168.46 190 
172.16 200  
175.84   


Bosch : Bosch K-type Thermocouple Probe TCP-K 

mV  Deg C  
0 0 
100 4.095 
200 8.137 
300 12.207 
400 16.395 
500 20.640 
600 24.902 
700 29.128 
800 33.277 
900 37.325 
1000 41.269 
1100 45.108 
1200 48.828 
1300  52.398  


Bosch : Bosch N-type Thermocouple TCP-N 

mV  Deg C  
372 -40 
485 0 
790 100 
1135 200 
1513 300 
1912 400 
2327 500 
2752 600 
3183 700 
3615 800 
4046 900 
4473 1000 
4845  1100  


Bosch : Bosch Infared Non-Contact Temperature Sensor TI-1000 

mV  Deg C  
1216 -20 
1227 0 
1240 20 
1244 25 
1257 40 
1301 60 
1328 80 
1360 100 
1395 120 
1435 140 
1478 160 
1526 180 
1577 200 
1632 220 
1691 240 
1754 260 
1820 280 
2000 300 
2200 350 
2418 400 
2652 450 
2901 500 
3163 550 
3437 600 
3722 650 
4017 700 
4321 750 
4633 800 
4952 850 
5278 900 
5610  950 


Bosch : Bosch Infared Non-Contact Temperature Sensor TI-300 

mV  Deg C  
1176 -20 
1232 0 
1303 20 
1323 25 
1390 40 
1497 60 
1622 80 
1768 100 
1935 120 
2123 140 
2332 160 
2562 180 
2813 200 
3085 220 
3377 240 
3689 260 
4021 280 
4371  300  
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