Re: alfa-digest V9 #137

[C2slayman@domain.elided]

Ralph,
       Sorry to hear about your plight.  But it is inevitable for any Alfa 
owner.

In a message dated 12/23/02 8:34:39 PM Central Standard Time, 
owner-alfa-digest@domain.elided writes:


> Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 22:48:44 -0500
> From: ralphone@domain.elided
> Subject: MilkShake
> 
> Hi Everybody,
> 
> Boy I'm having a bad day.  Discovered Oil that looks like milkshake in
> my 74 GTV. I guess there is a water leaking into the oil some where.
> 
Blown head gaskets don't necessarily lead to overheating.  If the rupture is 
between the oil and water passages, then it won't overheat.  If the rupture 
is between the cylinder and water, then you will get hot exhaust gas into the 
water and it will overheat.  It sounds like you have the former problem and 
not the latter.

   Funny thing is car runs great no overheating.  If anything it runs a
> little cool. I would appreciate it if I could get some thoughts on where
> water might mix with the oil.  
> 
Hmmm.....  Obviously head gasket water and oil passages is the prime culprit. 
 Any oil in the water?  You could do a compression test, but that doesn't 
always tell the full story (if the seal around the cylinders are not bad, 
compression will be OK).    The cylinder seals at the bottom could also leak 
water into the sump.  But I think this is less likely (but obviously much 
more serious).  I don't think there are oil passages into the water pump or 
timing chain cover, so this wouldn't be the source.  It's been too long since 
I've owned a Spica.  I forget if there is cooling water passages into the 
Spica pump - but I don't think so since fuel is used to cool the pump.  So 
all I can think of are head gasket and bottom cylinder liner seal.


> I'm thinking Head Gasket but now I'm not so sure.  I was under the
> impression when the headgasket goes usually you will find oil in the
> coolant not the other way around due to the higher pressure of the oil
> 
When the engine is off, the oil pressure drops to zero, but the cooling 
system will maintain 7-14lb pressure until it cools down.  But yes, during 
normal engine operation, the 60lb oil pressure should overcome the cooling 
system pressure.  So if the leak is in the head gasket, it must be between 
the water passage and one of the oil return passages that aren't under 
pressure.  Or, between the water system and the (gasp!) bottom cylinder liner 
seal.
feed.  Cylinder Liner Seals?  Are they easy to replace with the block in
> 
> the car?  Pulling the engine is not an option.  Front Cover Gasket?  
> 
I have never done the cylinder liner seals, so I won't comment.  But there 
are experts on the digest who will comment.  It's not fun, but I don't think 
engine removal is called for.  Front cover gasket is not too bad after you 
get the crank pulley off - but I wouldn't do it unless there are oil passages 
thru the gasket.  Wait!  It is possible that one of the casting carrying 
water has become porous.  So another possiblilty is that water is leaking 
thru the timing chain cover into the sump.  Make a close inspection with a 
flashligh for abnormal metal surface appearance inside the cover.


> Also I started to pull the head tonight but it seems stuck.  I was going
> to try the clothes line trick.  Should I put clothes line in each
> cylinder then turn the crank or do one cylinder at a time?
> 
Rope in #1 and #4 should do the trick.  Only two cylinders are up at a time.  
The other two are down and won't do any good.  Did you remove the two bolts 
under the timing chain cover that go up to the head?  I've missed those in 
the past.

Once you've got the head off, be careful not to disturb the cylinder liners.  
I've rotated the crank and pistons and never disturbed the cylinder liners, 
but I've been lucky.  Others say it is very difficult to do.  But be careful 
anyway.  You wouldn't want to create a leak you didn't have before!

When you replace the head gasket, I recommend going to a brass pin/viton 
o-ring kit in place of the roll pins and nBuna rubber o-rings which harden 
over time.

> Thanks and Happy Holidays
> Ralph DeLauretis
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

Good Luck,
Charlie
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