(NAC) Re: in defense of the pantera (w/issues similar to usa alfas)

["Tony Sims" <simstony@domain.elided>]

I've never seen a street Alfa this potent...

http://hem.passagen.se/hemipanter/

Also a well informed and well reasoned dialogue on the car.

And no disrespect to George or his deceased friend, but most cars of european
origin from before about 1980 rust.  Enthusiasts usually know this, and
understand that rust repair will be a part of their ownership dues.  It's also
one of the classic mistakes made by emotional buyers of older cars -- they
spot it on a sunny day, it's shiny on the outside, it makes all the right
noises, so they buy it.  Then it rains, suddenly there are leaks everywhere,
they pull up the carpet and "look ma, there's the road!" AMHIK...

----- Original Message -----
From: dsedon@domain.elided
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 5:15 AM
To: gmgraves@domain.elided
Cc: alfa-digest@domain.elided
Subject: in defense of the pantera (w/issues similar to usa alfas)

hi george,

well, le'see...  panteras here in the usa are mostly ~29-32 years old...  old
cars have rust...  pantera rust issues are well-known in the pantera
community.  as are their fixes.

as for mechanical/electrical issues, these, too, have been well-documented, &
are easy to deal with.  wheel bearing fixes, (the wheel bearing issues remind
me a *lot* of my transaxle alfas!), electrical fixes, cooling fixes, you name
it.  sorta like keeping an older alfa running...  ;~)  sure, the stock pantera
exhaust kept the ~2900-3000lb car's power down to between 266 & 310hp,
depending on the year.  thank the feds for that, tho...  and, good luck trying
to find a stock exhaust on a running pantera *today*...  :>)

*my* pantera is basically stock, and w/its hedders & modern electronic
ignition, and reduced-compression engine (which runs on regular, btw), is
prolly making only ~300hp.  but, for the price of a $10k mile service on a
ferrari 308, i will have installed a completely built 475hp engine.  'course,
i will have to burn premium gas, then...  ;~)  my pantera's rust issues have
been mostly dealt with, prior to my purchase.  i still need to do the rockers,
tho - prolly will become a major issue if not addressed in three years, or
so...  i guess that's why i was able to get mine at a relatively reduced
price!  :>)  if you spend $25-30k on a pantera today, it will be well-sorted,
rust-free, w/lotsa extra goodies - the trick is to find one w/the goodies that
appeal to *you*.  i lurked on the pantera digest almost two years, prior to
taking the plunge, so i knew what i was getting into.  in the 3.5k years i've
had it, i've put ~20k miles on it; many folks only put ~$1k/year on 'em,
others use 'em as daily drivers.

and, the pantera community is a bit of a tight community, too - its digest
gets about twice the bandwith as the alfa-digest - pretty amazing, considering
that only ~7000 de tomaso's were manufactured, most of 'em a single model, the
pantera.  also amazing is the fact that there are more vendors for me to find
parts from, parts that are on the shelf, for the most part, than there are
vendors for my alfas.

so, if ya don't like panteras, that's ok w/me, but please don't go spreading
misinformation about 'em.  you had one friend who came to an untimely end in
his pantera, and for that, i'm truly sorry.  but, that is not the whole
pantera story.  as far as panteras making alfas look like chebbies, i beg to
differ - but it's this same kinda misinformed talk about *alfas*, that is one
reason why alfa is no longer here in the usa...

doug s.
=======
   Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:48:51 -0700
   From: George Graves <gmgraves@domain.elided>
   Subject: Re:  New ones....

   Hmmm. Pantera eh? Have you checked the frame member that goes over your
   head in the roof just behind the seats for rust? The roof insulation
   holds the water (because Panteras leak) against this structural member
   and they rot away. Ditto for the member under the front where the
   suspension pieces attach. Never saw one without tin-worm damage- even
   here in California. And then there's the 6000 mile rear wheel bearings.
   No, I didn't leave out a zero. Six THOUSAND mile rear wheel bearings.
   Most Panteras were poorly made, poorly finished, had electrical
   problems that make Alfas look like Chevys by comparison, and had an
   exhaust system which literally suffocated the Ford Cleveland 351- V8
   which powered them. I'll stick to Alfas, thank you.

   BTW, I had a friend who owned a Pantera once. Used to help him work on
   it. I loved to drive it, but I never thought it handled particularly
   well. I must say that the exotic driving position, the Ferrari-like
   shift gate, and the powerful rear engine were intoxicating, to say the
   least. What happened to it? The front suspension collapsed (due to the
   aforementioned front frame member rot) while the owner was driving fast
   in Nevada and he was killed.

   George Graves

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