Re: U-505 and Enigma

[Richard Welty <rwelty@domain.elided>]

At 05:22 PM 3/15/00 +1300, Graham Hilder wrote:
>Interesting because I gather that it was the naval version of the Enigma
which gave the
>Allies the most headaches, and I gather that until they cracked it they
were as keen as
>mustard to capture a unit for assistance. They actually mounted a specific
mission or
>missions with the sole object of capturing them. (And I guess, with the
understood risk of
>revealing a possible compromise to the enemy).  So I would have thought
that the
>fortuitous capture of a sub complete with its unit wuld have been a great
coup. However,
>things weren't always as they seem, especially in the signals intelligence
business, so I
>could well be totally wrong here.

they wanted one, but they wanted one without the Germans being aware that
they had one. they ended up having to swear every crewman in the task force
to secrecy, segregate the crew of the U-505 from other prisoners for the
duration of the war, and censor communications quite a bit more carefully
than normal.

>Actually when today I saw the name U-505 in the first post on the topic, I
thought it
>sounded familiar, so it was interesting to have the Enigma connection
confirmed later. I've
>got a few books about it at home, including one which covers the various
captures in some
>detail. Must dig them out for a re-read.......

i went back to my library last night to try and produce a reference, but
it's not mentioned in Gallery for obvious reasons, as Ultra wasn't
declassified when he wrote it (the book is _20 Million Tons Under the Sea_,
not 20 thousand as i said yesterday.) Ultra would not be discussed
publically in anything older than the early 70s (Winterbotham, who wrote
the first book on Ultra, published his memoirs of the time in 1974.) none
of the Ultra specific books i have discuss it (Winterbotham, Lewin,
Bennett, etc.) i didn't find anything in my more general histories, but my
collection is still somewhat, um, disorganized, from having recently moved.
(at least it's mostly out of boxes now, as the new house is larger.) back
when my memory still worked correctly, i could probably have come up with
the reference without going back to the library -- oh well.

perhaps i should set up a mailing list for this topic... the history of
crypto, security, and espionage in this century is a remarkable and complex
subject, and has a great deal to do with why the world is the way it is
today -- far more than most realize.

richard

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