Re: GTV/6-116 and/or 119 Model Numbers

[JHertzman@domain.elided]

Dave Johnson backpedals furiously (as we all must, from time to time) on the 
question whether a GTV-6 is a 116 or a 119. He was relying on information 
from Centerline, and I was relying on information from d'Amico & Tabucchi, 
and it may well be that Centerline is correct and the big book wrong. It is, 
often enough. The only other thing I find in my desk files is an ARI "Vehicle 
Identification List" from the early eighties which gives 116.69 as the type 
number for the GTV6.

I believe I also wrote something about how his VIN number should start, which 
was based on the data in d'Amico & Tabucchi which says that the USA GTV-6 
tipo 116.69 motore tipo 01911 numbers start with ZAR116690*00001001. This 
differs from an ARI sheet outlining the VIN structure as having the fourth 
element the car line, 'A" for the GTV-6, the fifth element the configuration, 
'A' for 5 spd manual, and the 6-7-8 being trim level, and so forth.

Dave also writes "This also prompts me to wonder what happened to the GTV-6 
part numbers when the series was switched.  As I understand it (please 
correct me if I am wrong), the parts were usually numbered starting with the 
series and suffix for which they were designed.  Did all the 116.69 parts 
become 119.69 parts overnight, or did Alfa leave these alone?"

Well, Alfa may have left it alone but Fiat didn't. Under the old system parts 
were originally numbered starting with the series and suffix for which they 
were INITIALLY designed, but this did get blurred at times, and the Alfa 
parts numbering system was finally discarded and all parts given Fiat parts 
numbers.

Dave also mentions that Centerline says the Milano was a tipo 161, not 162. 
In the section headings in d'Amico & Tabucchi all 75 variants are 162s, but 
in the table of chassis and engine numbers it lists the Milano separately 
with numbers starting ZAR161(+11 digits) in 1986 and 1987. Then it gets a tad 
weird, with several blocks of numbers going from ZAR162(+11) to ZAR161(+11), 
and finally lists the three liters as having numbers from ZAR162(+11) to 
ZAR162(+11).

Shop manual information does not really clear things up completely. My Milano 
shop manual has a "Service and Identification Data" page, 00-6. Under 
"Vehicle Identification Codes" it lists A) Chassis Numbering (VIN-CEE), B) 
Engine Numbering, and C) Vehicle Identification Number (VIN-USA). 

Under A) Chassis Numbering (VIN-CEE) it has (1) Type Code and (2) progressive 
serial Number. The (1) Type Code is subdivided into 1a) Basic Type Number and 
1b) Suffix for Variants. The 1a) Basic Type Number "is allocated for each 
model range of vehicles with a common concept, (i.e. 161 - 6V 2.5 Milano, 116 
- - Alfetta range, 119 - 2500 V-6 range). The 1b) Suffix for Variants 
"identifies the characteristics within the basic model range (i.e.: 160 - 6V 
2.5 Milano, 119A - Alfetta 6 2500 with manual gearbox, 116C - GTV 2.5).

Things have gotten more complicated since the old days when a 101 was a 101. 
I won't argue with Centerline. The easy thing to do is say "I want a frammis 
for a 1982 GTV-6" and let the vendor sort it out.

John H. 
Raleigh, N.C.

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