more on the CAS

[JHertzman@xxxxxxx]

In AD7-120 Graham Hilder asks several questions relating to my posting on the
Competition Advisory Service publication- "possible conversion into electronic
form, the 16-valve engines, who produced the engines or how or where or when,
or whatever became of them, etc, if others would feel like posting some
background or reminiscences or whatever about the 16-valve engines, for the
interest of readers like me who have somehow missed out on seeing anything
written about this corner of Alfa Romeo history ?.And was the "Tasman" version
of the 2.5L V8. anything to do with the Tasman Sea down-under.....i.e. was it
an Alfa engine with some connection to NZ or Oz "

First, I am not an expert on any of this but I do have some relayed copies of
documents, and while I NEVER discard a piece of paper I sometimes (perhaps as
a consequence) often have problems putting my fingers on particular pieces in
the shambles of my (ha!) library. Will keep looking.

(1) " if others would feel like posting some background or reminiscences or
whatever about the 16-valve engines,-" I will try to tempt someone. 

(2) " who produced the engines or how or where or when,-" Autodelta was the
formal name of an organization headed by Carlo Chiti, an engineer who was with
Alfa Romeo 1952-1957 in the loosely named special experimental department
(reparto esperienze speciale, all lower case, in Fusi), then at the company of
former Alfa driver Enzo Ferrari from 1957 to 1962 as experimental and design
manager, then founded and ran A.T.S. for a year, in 1963 founded Autodelta
which became an integral part of Alfa Romeo in 1966. Chiti was responsible for
the TZ1, TZ2, GTA, "33" two liter and 3 liter V8s and 3 liter 8 and 12 cyl
engines, the engines for the Martini-Brabham, etc. My impression is that the
"Kiti Klan" was a relatively loose, ad-hoc, collegial group of Autodelta and
non-Autodelta Alfa engineers, machinists, masochists, mechanics, gearheads,
who used any opportunity that came along to do "stuff" for any sort of
competition, variants for various national series, hydroplane racing,
whatever. Several of the ARI people (the USA distributor, for outlanders)
worked formally and informally with Chiti and his crew both in Italy and in
endurance races in the USA. Don Black and his son, Dennis, now a mechanic in
New England, both were involved.

(3) The type 105.33 was Alfa Romeo's first rear-engined car to run in
competition, as the war had aborted the 512. The 33 initially (after chassis
trials with a TZ2 engine) had a 270 CV (at 9600 rpm) 1995 cc (78 x 50.4 mm) V8
engine. The 1969 version had a 3998 cc 86 x 64.4 mm V8 developing 400 CV at
9600 rpm which in 1971 increased to 440 CV at 9800 rpm. The 1968 two-liter was
called the "Daytona" after taking first and second in the two liter class in
the 24 Hours of Daytona. Then, quoting Fusi (from which came the above) "In
Australia the Brabham with its Alfa 33/2.5 engine won four overall victories"
which I assume answers Graham's question about the "Tasman" name.

Until I find relevant papers in my mouse-burrow I will put aside the
relationship of the 105.33 prototipo 1995 cc (78 x 50.4 mm) V8 engine, the
115.33 "Stradale" 1995 cc (78 x 52.2 mm) V8 engine, and the 105.64 Montreal
2593 cc (80 x 64.5 mm) V8. Better informed people than I have come to blows
over this, but if I remember correctly the consensus is that common statement
that the Montreal is derived from the 33 is incorrect.

Sharp eyes will have noticed that Fusi gives the same displacements for two
V8s with the same bores and different strokes. 78 x 52.2 mm does produce 1995
cc, so the 50.4 mm stroke for the prototipo is probably a typo.

(4) Will dig for more on the 16 valve engines. Until then, the Autodelta price
sheet listed a dozen fours for your Christmas wish-list:

1300 cc 74 x 75 135 CV single ignition $1,900
1300 cc 78 x 67.5 145 CV twin ignition $2,700
1500 cc 83.4 x 68.5 170 CV twin ignition $3,600
1500 cc 83.4 x 68.5 195 CV 16 valve injected $6,400
1600 cc 78 x 82 170 CV twin ignition $2,700
1600 cc 78 x 82 220 CV blown $5,200
1600 cc 86 x 68.5 180 CV twin ignition $3,600
1600 cc 86 x 68.5 210 CV 16 valve injected $6,400
1750 cc 80 x 88.5 160 CV single ignition $2630
1750 cc 80 x 88.5 185 CV twin ignition $2900
1900 cc 86 x 82 195 CV twin ignition $3600
1900 cc 86 x 82 225 CV 16 valve $6400
Dry sump version (costs 3 hp) add $300
Fuel Injection  (adds 5 hp) add $1000

- - the 1900 16 valve listed does not include the injection (as the other 16
valvers do) unless there is a misprint.

Lastly, on Graham's wish for a webpage edition, the yellowed paper and faded
typewriter printing over a cloverleaf would be beyond my scanner, so probably
not. 

Cordially,

John H. 

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End of alfa-digest V7 #121
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