More Giulia trivia

[Mark Springer <mspringer@xxxxxxx>]

> 

John wrote in AD7-59:

> I enjoyed Mark Springer's notes on the Giulias in AD7-057. Here in the USA we
> received modest numbers of Giulia Supers, I believe only in 1967 although
> there may have been some 1968s, and we probably got a few testing-the-waters
> T.I.s earlier, but if so certainly not many. 

Wasn't the Giulia Berlina the official replacement for the Giulia Super/TI and
I think there weren't any Giulia sedans (either Super/TI's or Berlina's)
shipped to the US in 1969; they started doing this again in '70 I think.

> 
> Fusi and d'Amico-Tabucchi are in general agreement on the versions, dates, and

You know: I really need to buy Fusi one of these days cause I got to have a 
good
summary of all the different Giulia models... *sigh* 
:-)

> quantities produced, the numbers usually off by a few units, but the listing

[...]

> factory with double Headlights." This fits a northern image of casual
> Mediterranean work habits, but I doubt that it is literally true. Barring
> typos (which abound) my impression is that one can in fact match serial number
> ranges with grill/headlight combinations, and do the same with similar
> variations, but that impression may be too generous. 

Maybe it's a combination of factors. From my mechanic, who maintains my Giulia,
I heard that at least a lot of small changes were made on the various Giulia
models (a point I also made in my previous post), and he works on these types
of Alfa's since they came new out of the factory. And maybe due to these
little changes, I can imagine this must have been also confusing for the 
workers in the factory because there would be such a huge supply of different
parts available to fit to the cars. When you see old photographs of the factory
you can see all different models (also with Bertones) mixed together in the
factory line. 

If I was a worker I am sure I would be confused on what to put on which car.
Therefore, I still think that Giulia's of the same model came out of the
factory in different trims and such. Maybe not a question of sloppieness of
the Alfa Romeo workers, but more the fact that just too many parts were 
available
for the Giulia's which may be a (trivial) error of the Alfa management who
thought of all these changes for the Giulia.

Dont get me wrong: I dont mind this error: it gives food for discussions ;) 
and gives every Giulia his own character. :) Besides: should it be due to
the mediteranean work-habits, I admit I find it a sort of a charming one.
:)  

> 
> Some of the discrepancies and anomalies may be due to shorthand descriptions
> used by owners and enthusiasts but not by the factory: Mark writes "Giulia
> TI's were made till 1971/72 (or even 73?). Mine is a 1970 Giulia 1300 TI."
> Yes, but no. The books are in agreement that a Giulia T.I. is a Giulia T.I.,
> the original 1600 cc car, and a Giulia 1300 T.I. is a Giulia 1300 T.I., but is
> not a Giulia T.I. By the standards of the books, Giulia T.I.s were built
> 1962-1967 (Fusi) or 1962-1968 (d'A.-T.), but not later; Giulia 1300 T.I.s
> 1965-1972 in both books. In Mark's use, a Giulia 1300 T.I. is a Giulia T.I.

Obviously: you are right. I completely overlooked the (1600) TI (yet another
good reason to buy myself the Fusi-bible). So wasn't the first Giulia sedan
just called Giulia (no TI, Super etc?) and was a 1300 single carburetted
car? At a later point the Giulia Super (1300?) appeared and the Giulia TI
appeared. (I leave out the TI Super because it was produced in low numbers).

I believed that Super stood for an improved version of the original Super,
ie., round clocks, seperate front seats and perhaps an improved engine.
About the engine I'm not sure. TI suggests a more powerfull engine
(certainly if you look at the top/fastest models of more recent Alfa's:
the Sud TI, the 33 TI, the DTM 155 V6 TI and the most recent 146 ti; all 
were (at some point) the top models of that type). Why would Alfa use
the TI name for the single carburetted models? First the (1600) TI and
later the slowest Giulia: the 1300 TI? After all, Turissimo Internazionale
suggests some kind of performance.

> Can confusions result? Certainly. Similarly a Giulia 1300 Super is not the
> same car as a Giulia Super 1.3, which was introduced two years later. The

ARRRGGHH!! Confused! :)

> factory certainly contributed to some confusions; the Giulia Diesel is the
> Giulia Diesel in both books and on the firewall number plate panel, but the
> trunk badge says "Nuova Super Diesel".

The trunk badge of all the Giulia Nuova Supers say only Nuova Super 1300 or 
1600.
The name Giulia is only visible on the dashboard. Besides, I dont think the 
diesel
was available on the pre-Nuova models.

> 
> So Mark writes "I am not aware of 1600 Giulia's with single carburettors. I
> thought these always had the double Weber/Dell'Orto's." But the T.I. was a
> 1600 Giulia with a single carburettor, and the Giulia 1600 S of 1968-1970 was
> a single carburettor variant, effectively the replacement for the T.I. Would

I see now that it is the replacement of the (1600) TI. 

> some owners have referred to them as T.I.s? Probably, although there were
> detail differences incorporating features which had been introduced to the
> range.

These detail differences make it al so confusing...

> 
> There were thirteen distinct types according to Fusi, fifteen by d'A.-T.'s
> count, and within several there were running changes in production. Some
> confusion is inevitable, but I doubt that haphazard changes were made based on
> a worker's whim or on accidents of supply.

Still think it might be confusing for them since all the different models were
on the same factory line.

> 
> On the question of the C-pillar badge (which is where this started) Mark
> writes
> "Werent the round badges only available on the Bertones?" That is what I
> thought. Andrew Watry mentions a round badge, but I found nothing to support
> one on any other Giulia variant in any of the books I have. A GT Veloce badge
> applied by an owner? Perhaps. An aftermarket decoration? Perhaps. A short-
> lived factory variant? Possibly. The snake-badges were certainly a factory
> fitting on some cars, but not on all Supers and not on Supers only. If it were
> my car (I wish!) I would leave it off, but that is the owner's choice. 

Agreed. The round ones are for the Bertones. I think it would look like it was 
placed
too high.

> - --------------------------------
> Trivia question. Mark refers to Dell'Orto carbs. Now that we have rehashed
> giubo vs. guibo and the De Dion/de Dion/dedion issue, is it Dell'Orto or
> Dellorto? One sees it both ways, but what is the name of the company? Should
> be an easy one.

Check the various workshop manuals. I'll check them tonight. :)

I think there was an apostrophe in it somewhere so I stick to my
Dell'Orto. :)

Furthermore John emailed:

> 
> Following up on the Giulia Super C-pillar badge question I popped it off to il
> Topo, who had been at Englewood Cliffs in the sixties. He remembered very well
> the green snake badges, which were very popular there on belt-buckles and
> such, although he did not remember ever seeing them on a car. He did not
> remember a round emblem, as Andrew Watry described, at all. Said if there ever
> was one it should show up in the parts catalog. Well, I would have looked
> there, of course, if I didn't know there wasn't one, but- . So I looked in the
> parts catalog. 
> 
> The badge is 105.26.62.501.00. The escutcheons are 105.26.59.402.00 (R.H.) and
> 105.26.59.403.00 (L.H.). The rivet, badge securing, is 101.00.50.173.00.
> 
> Well. Not much more to say, is there? Learn something every day, if I'm lucky.

Hmmmm. 105.26 is the number of the Giulia sedan right? So it should be also 
available
for the Giulia sedans as well? Strange. Oh well... :)

> 
> John
> 

Ciao,

Mark
- -- 
********* http://www.sara.nl/mark ***********
Mark Springer    O==V==O    mspringer@domain.elided
****** 1970 Alfa Romeo Giulia 1300 TI *******

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