[no subject]

My own two last posting on the subject, in September, with ALL credit to two
other guys:

"There has been recent discussion about dropped crank plugs and their
replacement- tack-welding aluminum to iron versus using lead allen-head set-
screws and so forth. Stewart Sandeman, who wrote a column called "The Alfa
Doc" for AROC's "Alfa Owner" magazine, tackled the topic in December 1993. As
he sometimes did, he approached the topic by reprinting somebody else's column
from an earlier issue, adding his marginal comments, so it took on some of the
character of a 'digest' type forum, except that the earlier writer couldn't
usually give a timely comeback. In this case Sandeman built his article around
a November 1979 discussion by Dave Vegher and Gary Valant, both of whom were
well-known and respected in Alfa racing and engine-building circles. 

"Sandeman's final paragraph had a 'kicker' at the very end. He wrote: "When we
replace plugs we have found it helpful to stake them into place, which makes
their attachment to the crank more secure. We have also installed Allen-type
plugs, but you must be very careful when doing this because the hard
crankshaft material makes it easy to break off a tap. Even with the Allen-type
plugs, they will also be more secure if staked into place once they're tight."

"I have never tried staking an Allen set-screw, always thought they were
extremely hard and it probably would not have occurred to me. Might try it. 

"I also wonder- if the hardness of the nitriding is only about .010 thick,
could one decrease the dreaded tap-breakage by counterboring through the
superhard layer first? 

"A most interesting passage deals with the risks and probabilities of bearing
damage. Sandeman says: "Both Gary and Dave report never having seen the
condition result in bearing damage to an engine, '...not even two unusual
engines which had four of the six possible plugs missing', according to Dave."

"Much of the article dealt with doing the job in the car. Gary estimated eight
hours labor to do the job properly. Anyone wanting to try might find the
article worth looking up.
- ---------------------------------------------
Later posting,
"In AD5:099 I posted a follow-up note on the previous discussions of dropped
crank plugs, threading, allen-head set screws and the like. It elicited a
reply from a greybeard who, for valid reasons, does not want to appear on the
digest under his real name and/or email address. His prior off-digest
responses to digest postings have often seemed pertinent, trenchant, sometimes
amusing, sardonic etc etc so I asked him if I could perhaps quote, paraphrase,
or otherwise pass-through and with what limits- a "Deep Throat" scenario of
sorts. He gave me a go-ahead, so I will be passing through the Words of Wisdom
(or of Arrogant Stupidity, per your opinion) of the "Oldest Rat in the Alfa
Barn", ORAB for short. ("Oldest Rat in the Barn" is not a term of opprobrium
in North Carolina; it signifies the one who, longer than anyone else, knew
more of what he really needed to know when the chips were down.)

"ORAB wrote: "just happened to bump into your digest article, and must say
that I think you are correct in all of your observations, and I thought youd
like this: several of the early 'elaboratore' in Italy, as well as crankmaker
Violini (as an example) would prep the hole with their equivalent of a dremel
tool using a green stone, then tap the hole, and screw in a brass allen
setscrew or plug.  This could be staked or swaged in  place (pre loctite), and
later easily drilled out.  We ran into several of these in our Newark shop in
the early sixties.  Seemed to work as they stayed in for those ungodly long
Sebring races.  I suppose there are many other ways to plug the holes safely,
however the brass plug seems to also be a favorite of some of the oval track
crank builders."

"JAH replied: "everything I have read or heard said it wasn't a problem before
they started hardening the production cranks with the 2000 engines. You didn't
mention a year but it sounds like you are talking about earlier engines. Would
the "early elaboratore" cranks have been nitrided? 

"I haven't heard of brass allen screws, sounds like the kind of thing one
could have a small shop turn out in Italy in the sixties, easier than finding
here in the 90s. But I would think for the very small (personal) shop home-
made brass plugs with simpler slotted heads would be easy enough to make and
could be screwed in well enough with loctite and swaged, and then indeed be
easier to drill out than a hardened steel allen setscrew. Opinion?"

"ORAB answered back: (on the nitriding of early cranks) "Yep! Some, or most
were.  I dont have the details but I remember that they were ground with green
wheels and threw a nice deep red spark typical of the process. One of the most
popular crank specialists was "Violini" ( whos cranks were stamped on a cheek
with his trademark, a 6mm violin ( without strings, of course) he supplied the
likes of Conrero, Facetti, Busato, etc for some time in the Giulietta period.
One of my instructors at A.R.I., Tony Civitico (rip) worked for Busato before
coming to A.R. and was a key person in our early pre-Autodelta days, when the
"factory team" wasnt a team at all, but a few guys from the experimental
department "espe" led by ing. Livio Nicolis who came to Sebring a few times,
before racing interefered with their "real jobs" ( building new cars(105). 

"(on the brass plugs) "You are correct, even a brass taper thd would be fine.
The limeys used brass plusgs often in cycle motors to block off journal
drillings, but of course they would be some freek limey b.s.c. thread if not
b.s.f."

End of the relay from The Barn.

John

------------------------------