Re: Pedigrees or muts?

["Rich Wagner" <drsavage@usa.net>]

Mark:

Thanks for the response.  You wrote:

>I thought my stock GTV6 rolled around the corners just like a Plymouth!

Oh nooooo.  Your GTV6 rolls around corners VERY differently than a
Plymouth.  That's why it feels different and can perform differently than a
Plymouth.


>The roads are very different in Italy, than the US.  The car may have
>been optimized for their roads, and we all know the ride height was
>changed for US cars to meet minimum required headlight heights from the
>road.

Right.  The question:  how does this effect the response of the car?  Until
this is determined, you have no idea how you should alter that response,
and what physical components to change or adjust.  Let's not forget that
there are ways to make the car exhibit the same response it had when it was
lower, like increased rates on the torsion and antiroll bars.  Did the Alfa
guys use the same bars on the U.S. spec cars?  Did they deem it necessary?


> No Rich, the designers parameters do not necessarily match our
>actual conditions, or individually desired parameters.  (Like no cup
>holders).

Well, nobody is perfect.


>Many design parameters are defined by economic reasons, like
>Ford Taurus steering wheels in new Jaguars.

ALL designs have, as one of their design constraints, economy.  Making a
design more expensive, however, doesn't mean higher performance.  We Alfa
owners, of all people, should realize that.  I think we often forget it.


>My lowered, stiffened GTV6
>rides and handles much better than stock, especially at the race track,
>where the parameters exist that I want the suspension optimized for.

As Bimbo said to Clark in Hollywood Knights, "See, that's what I'm
talking about, right there."  Where have your mods diminished the
performance of your car?  Do you know?  Without question, this has
happened.  Depending on how low you've gone, the car will now come up
against the snubbers earlier than it used to.  That's quite a detriment to
handling.  Even worse, if the body pan can touch the road under ANY
circumstance, you now have a vehicle which can't corner or brake (the
weight has to be on the wheels for that, not the body), under certain
conditions.  There is a misconception out there that a lower car ALWAYS
handles better.  That is simply not true.  Especially on the GTV6, a
one-inch drop in C.G. location will make little difference to the front
suspension, and absolutely none to the rear.  It will do a nice job of
reducing your clearance and suspension travel, however.  The stiffer
springs will improve the transient response of the car, but result in
reduced ability to keep the tires on the road over some washboards.  There
is no free lunch.


>(The audiophiles on the list would die if they knew I renovated my old
>McIntosh MC240 tube amp with new caps and resistors, sounds much better
>now)

I assume that you went to lower tolerance components.  Stereo blueprinting!


>BTW, I recall you are an avid cyclist.  You didn't customize/bastardize
>your bicycle, did you?

With competitive-level road bicycles, you can't say.  You buy the frame and
all of the components seperately, and assemble them up into what you need. 
The frame/fork combination is usually designed to go together, but that's
usually the extent of the design integration.  No, let me correct that. 
There is one greater step in integration.  That's to go to someone like Tom
Kellogg and have him build a frame to your body's dimensions.


Rich
Manitou Springs, CO
'82 GTV6 Balocco