RE: Re[6]: [ihc] RE: lug patterns

["Ed Sohm" <idaemes@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Mac, 

I know of no such thing early '60s IH Deuces, not dual or single wheel.
In fact I know of no such thing as an IH "Deuce" to take a hard line on
what is a "Deuce-and-a-half".  Military Vehicles Magazine has a standing
offer for someone to produce any evidence of that term being used prior
to the end of WWII. An M 5-6 was never called a "Deuce-and-a-half" that
anyone can prove with period documentation. 

Dual vs single on trucks has been a debate for more like 100 years, not
just 45.  IH was probably involved in the debate back then, I won't
argue that point.  Search for an M 135 and compare it to an M211.  Same
truck, just one has singles and one has duals, circa. early 1950s. Duals
for mostly highway use, singles for sand and such.  I'm sure it predates
even those trucks but don't have an example in my head. 

Don't be so hard on the military.  Granted they do some dumb things
(Gamma Goat) but for the M35 to last from the 50s to current sure says
something to me about the design.  Biting the hand that feeds and houses
you aside. The US military has done right by me and many others.    

Those wheels (if they are really what you want, I know nothing about the
bolt patern) are available all over and pretty cheap before shipping.  

www.memphisequipment.com
Memphis (duh)


Sam Winer Motors inc.
Akron, OH
330-628-4881
TO rims with tires, 9X20 =$90

Army Surplus of Dodge City
Dodge City Ks
620-227-7441
9X20 used rims and tires $50-$100
11X20 used rims and tires $50-$100

www.alfaheaven.com
To see M-135s and M 211s and surely they sell rims and tires.

www.easternsurplus.net
PA

www.tedstrucks.net
AL, over 3000 tires in stock

John Winslow Sales
252-826-5605
NC

www.militaryconvoy.com

I'm sure this is only scratching the surface of availability.

Ed Sohm
Battle Creek, IA 

'71 800 B
'74 200 4X4 Travelette Camper Special
'71 1210 short bed Travelette
+ a bunch more, including an M 211 variant (M220) Probably more
correctly called a Jimmy than a Deuce.
  

   

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ihc@domain.elided [mailto:owner-ihc@domain.elided] On Behalf Of
Mac McMuffin
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 10:47 AM
To: ken.dunnington; Tom Harais
Cc: ihc@domain.elided
Subject: RE: Re[6]: [ihc] RE: lug patterns


## >> Isn't the 6 on 8.75 found on the ubiquitous 2.5 ton 6x6s?  I don't
## >> know the pattern for sure but it is 6 on ~9".  This makes
literally
## >> hundreds of thousands of cheap 20" wheels available.  Now the lug
size
## >> is 1.5" so that's something to consider, and they are lug center
not
## >> hub center, and they are a DRW type wheel.  But 6 on 8.75 seems
about
## >> right for the pattern used the various deuce-and-a-half's, but
maybe
## >> it's a bit bigger.  I can check later but figure someone knows
## >> offhand.

that's essentially correct, Ken.  many of the older deuce and a halfs as
well as some early five tons are the six on 8.75" lug pattern with 20"
wheels.  as you mention, they mostly use the offset wheels for duals.
HOWEVER; not all of them are dualled, and there *are* some older single
wheel variants running around, though not many at all.  in the very
early
'60s IH experimented with single wheel deuce and a half and five ton
military trucks, mostly the five ton as IH was eliminating deuce and a
half
production.  they were by no means the only company to experiment with
the
single wheels (just the first), and in the '80s single wheels on five
tons
were adopted universally throughout the US military, which began the
long
excess process to get rid of the dual wheel trucks.  you'd think they'd
just
convert the existing duals to singles, but apparently that ain't the way
the
military works.

anyway, the point is that single wheels in this wheel type and lug
pattern
WERE made.  they're probably hard to find now, but it's possible to
either
find them in an old surplus scrapyard or perhaps have some made.  you
might
check the wheel shops and see what it would cost to have a set of wheels
in
the desired offset and rim size made to fit your lug pattern.

this post excessed the last deuce and a half this year, and they're
still
waiting for export in the excess lot.  so far as i know, we're one of
the
very last US Army active duty CONUS posts to still have had some deuce
and a
halfs in line units.  the local national guard still has some, though,
and
we still have a lot of older trailers of various types that still use
the
six on 8.75" pattern.  most of the trailers are dualled, but there are
some
singles.  most of the singles use offset dual wheels; i've seen one or
two
with the single wheel type, but i can't remember what they were on and i
haven't seen 'em recently.

incidentally, all modern five tons are standard industrial ten lug, and
they're all single wheel.  they've started using some cabover five tons
instead of the conventionals, though, which are an interesting
experiment in
ugliness.  the Marine Corps has adopted seven ton trucks and are
excessing
their own five tons.

my nickel, no grain of salt.

--Mac

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