Re: Turning degrees and tire size

[Tom Mandera <tsm1@domain.elided>]

Rik DesJardin wrote:
> 
> I was thinking; is it true of those that to run wide tires have to adjust
> the steering stop on the front end to keep the tires from hitting the
> springs?

Yes, it certainly is.  I think those with 33x9.50s *might* not have
to... but it'd be close nonetheless.  I'm running 33x12.50s on 15x8
rims.  The offset (unknown) is such that the rear tires just tuck inside
the rear fender lip when I twist the rear suspension up.

> If Tom is going to go 35in tires they will be 12.50 wide (unless he gets
> Gateway Mudders).

Dang, you figured it out, Rik! ;-)  Actually, I'd probably end up with
two sets.. I can get 35x12.50s for $100 each.. and then get a set of the
Buckshot 36x10s for the "serious" stuff.. ;)

> But maybe if Scout knuckles were used on full size axle on a Scout,  the
> springs would be set farther away from the tires anyway.
> Follow me?
> I think I'm rattling on.

*Bingo, Sherlock!*

After a little research, I've turned up - the Scout II Dana 44s are
40-deg steer.  There's some debate on having a 40deg Dana 30 knuckle,
but I think my early Scout II (71-75) service manual mentions the 40-deg
steer axle as well.. and I know it lists the Dana 30 R&P figures (which
I used to torque down my Dana 44 carrier to the wrong specs).

All of the other Dana 44 knuckles are supposedly around 37 degrees. 
Howard - it *is* the knuckles.

Put a full width Dana 44 (Chevy truck?  IH truck/Travelall?) under the
front, and you keep the stock spring spacing, but add about 2" (or so)
between the springs and the knuckles.. which means that much more
turning angle for that much larger tires.

I'm itchin' to get my hands on some $$$ ($150 plus some change) to go
get the Chevy 0.5" wall HD Dana 44 the junkyard has for me.  I want to
bolt it up, grab some F150 hubs n' rotors from a friend, and bolt on my
33x12.50s and set the front clip on the racer and see how it all looks..

If I can make it fit and look like a decent job.. and meet legal
mudflap/flare requirements... I'll have to go back to the junkyard for
another '44 front. <VBG>

With oversize tires, I'm not positive the 40deg is as important.. I'm
well under 40 deg today.. so if I went to 35s and got to 37deg, that's
fine by me!

Another benefit of going full width?  Chevy Dana 60s would bolt right
in, too.

The problem with using the Scout II knuckles on a Chevy '44 - the Chevy
uses different stub shafts.  You would need to build a "custom" axle
shaft by using the Chevy inner 'shaft, the large '44 U-joint, and Scout
II stubs.  You'd also have to use the Scout II rotors and hub
assemblies.  All this because of the 8-bolt spindles... the F150
hubs/rotors won't go on the Scout's 8-stud spindle.  

OTOH, I think you could use a Dana 30 knuckle and spindle with the F150
5 on 5.5 rotors and the stock Chevy axle shafts.

If you never broke a stub shaft, I wouldn't mind the hybrid axle shaft
approach... but I intend on keeping the Chevy parts Chevy... for ease of
replacements.. and they ARE cheaper.. I priced SII stubs at $68 or so
and the Chevy stub was $40.  New, of course.  Hit the junkyard and you
can find lots of Chevy Dana 44 axle shafts... 

I'm thinking about just replacing my two worn 33s for the time being...
we'll see.. gotta see how the full width setup works on the racer first
(which means I need to get it ready/done)

Hopefully I'll almost finish the frame swap on Ben's '75 this weekend..
which'll free me up to get MY projects done... and if he pays me for the
frame and some body parts, I'll have the cash for the front axle for the
racer... still need one more set of D44 4.88s tho'..

-Tom Mandera, Helena MT
http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout