<WOB> re : BMW & Ford - UGH (long)

[ben keyes <bkeyes1@xxxxxxxx>]

You can take this with a chunk of salt if you like (note my email) but
it's not really opinions, but more facts and info from other sources...

David Holeman wrote :

> I think about a crappy car company like Ford buying BMW and I shudder.
> Just look at what they did to SAAB.  One of the finest turbo engines on
> the market and they move to make the 900 look like a Taurus and they put
> ford engines in them.

GM bought Saab, not Ford.  No commentary required on GM in general (it's
too easy a target for piling on.)  Saab is very much a niche
manufacturer and so stay alive in the market these days, you have to
have a rich "big brother" to defray the costs of development.  The most
recent Saabs are based on common platforms with European Opels, which
are apparently pretty nice.  I believe that Saab still has some engines
that are unique to them, but I may be wrong.

> Then look at what they did to Jaguar.  They made
> these cars look even more like the Taurus and for how much.

The XJ8 (sedan) is selling better than it has in years & the JD Power
ratings for Quality are excellent.  Styling is open for debate, but has
been well received in the automotive press & sales do mean something...

>  Look what they did to the XJ12 - there is a waste.  No one event thinks of it as a
> sports car any more.

The XJ12 was a 4 door sedan if I recall correctly, and the Jag V-12 was
a _very_ old design (mid-late 60's in basic architecture) that it was
not economically feasible to update to current emissions & fuel economy
standards.  The new V-8 has been noted as being a very good engine.

(Jag also has the XJR, 4 dr sedan w/supercharged 370hp V-8 that is in
the same ballpark as the new M5 for general performance, though I'd take
the M5 every day of the year...)

You may be thinking of the XJS, which was a two-door coupe - that was
never a "real" sports car by anyone's standards - more of a heavier,
slower (in most models) and poorer quality version of a BMW 6-series. 
They came with both the 3.8L(?) inline 6 as well as the Jag V-12.

The XJS was replaced a couple of years ago with the new XK8, which is
selling very well and is noted as being one of the best GT cars around. 
While not a sports car in the mold of an M3 or 911, it's quite nice.

There is also an XKR version of the XK8, same engineas XJR, but faster
due to being slightly lighter I believe.  I have read several comparison
tests between XKR & new 911 which the 911 wins most for total package,
but the Jag is noted as being a nearly equal in most areas.

The logical competitor for the XKR would be an 850CSi, but the 850 is a
significantly bigger car I believe and is an older design by a good bit.


In general Jaguar has benefited from the added $$$ & resources that Ford
has, while maintaining a pretty distinct brand & image.  The improvement
in overall quality from the depths of the 80's has been very impressive,
though that may be due to internal changes at Jag, not necessarily any
Ford influence.

The new S-Type may very well be a good 5-series competitor, and it has a
certain style that is not present in a lot of cars these days.  It may
be "retro", but having _some_ style, even if it is debatable, is better
than having none.  I think the tail lights look too much like a
Continental, but it's sharp other than that.


I agree with Jack Money's comments about it being unlikely that Ford
would buy BMW.   BMW is making a big effort to stay independent and
there is a fair amount of overlap between product lines.  Ford does have
a ton of cash these days & as long as the economy does not collapse &
gas stay cheap enough to keep the Expeditions & Navigators rolling, the
$$ will keep flooding in.


All that being said, there are still only aa few Ford products (SVT
Contour, Puma, Miata) that I would consider buying, which is too bad
really.



Ben Keyes
E28 M5
thinking that a Caterham 7 would be a practical 2nd car ;-)

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