GTV 2.0 versus 164 24v Cloverleaf

["Ian Preece" <ian_preece@domain.elided>]

It's been an interesting week.........

In my search to by my next Alfa I have looked at two cars this week, an 84
GTV 2 litre and a 95 164 24v Cloverleaf. I know I'm not comparing apples
with apples, but just stick with me for a while.

I cannot consider a two seater Alfa, I need four seats. I really want a
Milano V6, but they are getting very scarce in the UK. I've run a V6 164
before, and was very happy with it, only selling due to change in work
situation.

I'm looking to by a car to keep, preferably one that's a bit different or
rare.

The 164 Cloverleaf has done 77k, has a new clutch, belts done, bespoke
exhaust and brakes overhauled. All the electric's work, including A/C and
stepper motors (a minor miracle in itself) and runs very well, no strange
noises and very good oil pressure, even when warm. The interior leather is
in very good order. The only reasons I haven't jumped at this one are as
follows:

The engine bay is pretty dirty, with corresponding oxidation of the alloy
cam covers and induction chamber. This suggests to me  hard life. The owner
(which, incidentally is now in Portland, Oregon on secondment) admits he has
been doing regular trips from the South of England to Scotland, around 600
miles, so this is perhaps to be expected.

The wheels need a refurb. They are the split rim, multi hole design, and
look pretty shabby where the lacquer has lifted and oxidation has taken
place. This is easily fixed locally.

The body is sound, apart from a two major scratches, one on the boot lid,
the other on the front wing, and the usual pitting of the bonnet from
extensive motorway(freeway) high speed driving.

The wing mirror brackets are beginning to corrode, like many do. I have
found a replacement entire assembly at approx. $400.

It's very complicated mechanically! I haven't got a clue how the
'electronic' suspension works, but it sounds expensive to fix when it fails
(as I'm sure it will at some point).

On the plus side, it drives very well, stops OK and is very comfortable. The
Cloverleaf version (230bhp, 150mph) is getting quite rare now, there were
only 400 imported into the UK anyway, so it's very appealing in that way.
There was also a service history.

So.....

On the other hand was the GTV. This showed 33k on the clock, and the
bodywork and interior condition seemed to back this up, both being in very
good order. No corrosion, good paintwork and interior extremely clean and
tidy. Car had been used as a holiday vehicle in Cyprus, hence the lack of
rust. Seller had bought with no service history, so mileage could not be
authenticated.......

When driving, I was immediately disappointed by the lack of power in the
engine, it really felt tired and gutless. Brakes were OK, but nothing
special. Attempting a slight gradient, at 4000 revs in third, a very loud
harsh vibration was apparent from the rear. The seller suspected this was
the exhaust brushing the bodywork. Could have been anything really.

I walked away from that one, saying I would keep looking for a Milano.

The question these experiences posed to me was this:

Would it be better taking on a car with excellent bodywork/interior trim,
but poor, simple, mechanicals, and rebuilding the engine/drivetrain,  or
would it make more sense to accept the low level of effort required to
improve a much more complicated car to something of genuine class.

I don't expect digesters to make a decision for me, but any comments as to
what they would do, and why, would be really appreciated. Also, if anyone
out there has direct experience of a Cloverleaf 164, I'd really be
interested to hear from you.

Thanks for any help offered.

Ciao,

Ian

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