Re: [alfa] re: Air conditioning question (No Alfa content)

["Gwynne W. Spencer" <gwynnes1@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Yes they are flammable - all 2 lbs or so. What about the 120 lbs of 
gasoline in the tank!

The basic reason that the HC refrigerants will not catch on, is that it 
would require all the A/C shops to buy and setup another dedicated set of 
tools and storage containers! Not highly likely. Dealing with dedicated 
r-12 and dedicated r134a is trouble enough.

For a different perspective, go to: http://www.inti.net/freon.htm

Gwynne Spencer

At 01:20 PM 8/3/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>Before anyone decides to use one of the HC refrigerants I suggest they
>do a little research.  They are actually outlawed in several states.  The
>problem is that they are pretty flammable.  You have to remember that we
>are talking about a flammable gas under pressure (up to 300 psi on a normal
>system).  The big concern is that in an accident you have an evaporator in
>the passenger compartment carrying this flammable gas!  I'm not saying that
>this stuff doesn't work, or that it isn't much better on the environment, or
>even
>that I wouldn't use it myself but you need to do some research prior to use.
>You will also find that most AC shops will not work on your system if this
>stuff is installed.  The two links below are very good for general AC
>information.
>Both are supported by professionals.  You will see that they both recommend
>134a over any of the blends or HCs.  There is no miracle in a can when it
>comes
>to AC.  As for the original question about the Jeep pay a few extra bucks and
>stay with the R12.  Trust me it will work better, last longer, and you can
>always
>convert at a later date
>
>http://www.ackits.com/forum/index.cfm?NoCookies=Yes&forumid=1
>http://www.aircondition.com/
>
>Dave McCrory
>Maryville, TN
>93' 164 (freeze 12)
>87' Verde (R12)
>87' Platnium (R12)
>87' Gold (empty)
>76' Spider (2x70)
>
> >Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 18:41:43 -0600
> >From: "John S." <roadtrip999@domain.elided>
> >Subject: [alfa]
> >
> >
> >Joe mentioned about alternative refridgerants, so I'll give you my take on
> >them, FWIW.
> >
> >As a matter of fact, I also have an 85 Cherokee with the V-6 and A/C. About
> >3 years ago the R-12 charge went low enough to become ineffective. The
> >system has sat for 3 years dormant. This year I decided to try an
>i>nexpensive alternative to R-134. Since the Jeep has 200k miles on it now, I
> >didn't want to spend several hundred dollars to convert to an R-134 
> system .
> >. which would probably need a parallel flow condenser to work well.
> >
> >At any rate, I had what was left of the system evac'd (only about 4 lbs of
> >pressure in the system = empty). Some places will do it for you for free
> >since the recovered R-12 is saleable. I hooked up a vacuum pump and pulled
> >the system down for an hour or so and checked for obvious leaks. There were
> >none. Next I let the vacuum come up to 10" as recommended by the 
> alternative
> >refridgerant. The one I used was Enviro-safe. The advantages of HC
> >refridgerants is that they're not controlled by the EPA and are
> >environmentally friendly. I added in the amount recommended by Enviro-safe
> >(1/3 the normal R-12 charge by weight) and the system cooled just like R-12
> >does. This refridgerant is completely compatible with all R-12 seals,
> >compressor, mineral oil, etc. (unlike R-134). So far the charge has held,
> >but even if there's some seepage, the stuff is cheap, non-harmful to the
> >environment and only costs about $5 a can (=1lb of R-12). Hi and Lo
> >pressures are fine and according to the manufacturer, takes less hp to turn
> >the compressor. It is flammable, but less so than R-134, and at a something
>l>ike 1500F.
> >
> >However, that said, if you have most of the R-12 still in your system, a 
> top
> >off charge may be all that you need. HOWEVER, MIXING REFRIDGERANTS >WITHIN
> >THE SYSTEM IS ILLEGAL AND NO A/C MECHANIC WILL LIKELY WANT TO >EVACUATE 
> YOUR
> >SYSTEM WITH MIXED REFRIDGERANTS UNLESS HE HAS A VERY SPECIAL >RECOVERY
> >MACHINE. The manufacturers of the HC refridgerants tell you to NOT mix
> >refridgerants. Evac your system first, then fill with HC. If you want to
> >know more about the alternative refridgerants, do a web search. There's 
> lots
> >of info out there on them.
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